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Note that various surveys report young women and young men diverging a lot more politically. Partly because women's rights have become so politicised.

by pjc50 2y ago

galfarragem 2y ago
This trend is certainly one aspect of the explanation for the decline in the number of long-term relationships.
- HPsquared 2y ago
  It could also be the opposite causality. Because people aren't getting into intimate relationships as much (looking out for each other, caring deeply about an individual of the opposite gender), the two groups are naturally diverging into preferring "what's best for ME". I think the political split between genders is MUCH stronger for singles. It's kind of a trap actually.
- 542354234235 2y ago
  The other being that once women have largescale representation in the workforce, can open bank accounts and credit cards on their own, and can support themselves financially, one of the key pressures to marry is removed. Once there was no fault divorce and women did not need to prove why they needed to divorce, one of the key pressures to stay married is removed.
  - dfxm12 2y ago
    Perhaps important, republicans from state lawmakers up to the VP are interested in repealing no fault divorce laws.
    - 542354234235 2y ago
      I am the opposite of surprised. How else are terrible, low-quality men going to trap women into a life of unpaid home labor if they can control their own finances, reproduction, and choice to enter or leave a marriage.
      - Tr3nton 2y ago
        [dead]
    - UncleMeat 2y ago
      As the gender gap in voting patterns widens, denying rights to women goes from not only being an ideological project of the right but a political project as well. "We will win more elections if women have less social power" is not a good situation to be in.
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      And that's just what they'll openly admit to! Rest assured, they would absolutely not stop at no-fault divorce. They would undo all of the progress you mentioned, and likely more.
  - Jensson 2y ago
    That happened a long time ago though, much much longer ago than the number of relationships started to drop, so its unrelated.
    - 542354234235 2y ago
      In 1969, California passed no-fault divorce, followed quickly by other states, and by the mid-80s, nearly all states had adopted no-fault divorce laws. In 1974, the Equal Credit Opportunity Act (ECOA) made it illegal for banks to discriminate in lending based on sex or marital status, allowing women to get credit cards, loans, etc. In 1978, the US passed the Pregnancy Discrimination Act. The rate of working women went from 30% in the post WWII 40s, to over 50% in the 1970s. And divorces. They went from 9.2% in 1960, to 22.9% in 1980, and have been slowly declining since then.
barry-cotter 2y ago
What do you mean by women’s rights? The difference in support for abortion by sex is trivial. https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opini...
- wing-_-nuts 2y ago
  Seeing a 3 point difference in the support for abortion between men and women is *wild* to me.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    Rest assured: Those 33% of women who say abortion should be "Illegal in all/most cases," would instantly carve out an exception for themselves if their own lives or livelihoods were in jeopardy from a pregnancy.
- 9rx 2y ago
  Probably not abortion. While rights never happen in a vacuum, it is usually framed as a matter of fetus rights. How about a woman's right to equal employment opportunity? 67% of women are in favour of DEI, while most men (57%) take the opposing view. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/poll-american-voters-are-deeply-divided-dei-programs-political-correct-rcna196377 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/poll-american... The primary political parties are definitely catering to those sides.
DeathArrow 2y ago
Also white/black, straight/gay, poor/wealthy etc. We can find hundreds of dividing lines if we insist.
tekla 2y ago
Ah yes, one sex is diverging to the other side because they are wrong on MY pet issue. (This is not grounded in reality)
moolcool 2y ago
> Partly because women's rights have become so politicised. That's a hand-wavy way of saying that a core pillar of one of your parties is to take away the rights of an entire gender. Imagine describing 1940s Germany and saying "Ethnicity has become so politicized these days. I'm just interested in nationalizing the auto industry"
- gosub100 2y ago
  That would only be true if words weren't perverted for political leverage. Sexist used to mean "women can't do that" now sexist means "a woman experienced an unpleasant thing, and it carries more significance because of her gender, and if you dare dispute this you can expect to be cancelled".
  - moolcool 2y ago
    I don't know if you're a news buff, but they're actually actively saying "women can't do that".
    - Jensson 2y ago
      That doesn't contradict what he said though, he didn't say the old sexists are no longer called sexist, he said the definition had expanded to cover many more than before.
      - moolcool 2y ago
        Why even say it then? What's the point of countering "Well, the definition has expanded so much", when the thing you're talking about conforms to the old definition?
        gosub100 2y ago
        I said it because it's a dirty trick used by one side to make people think there's a crisis. When are you going to declare the problem solved? When every single living breathing human being conforms to your world view? Your argument is that someone, somewhere, said something terrible. Why even say it then? If course some people out of 8bn will have extremist views or utterances. Is that really a surprise?
pixl97 2y ago
>Partly because women's rights have become so politicised. What is the womans suffrage movement? I may be extrapolating on a single statement too far, but I do feel that you are missing a huge chunk of history regarding all the rights women (at least regarding the US) did not have. Womans rights have been political for the last 200 years if not longer.

Note that various surveys report young women and young men diverging a lot more politically. Partly because women's rights have become so politicised.

by pjc50 2y ago

Note that various surveys report young women and young men diverging a lot more politically. Partly because women's rights have become so politicised.

galfarragem 2y ago

This trend is certainly one aspect of the explanation for the decline in the number of long-term relationships.

HPsquared 2y ago
It could also be the opposite causality. Because people aren't getting into intimate relationships as much (looking out for each other, caring deeply about an individual of the opposite gender), the two groups are naturally diverging into preferring "what's best for ME". I think the political split between genders is MUCH stronger for singles. It's kind of a trap actually.
542354234235 2y ago
The other being that once women have largescale representation in the workforce, can open bank accounts and credit cards on their own, and can support themselves financially, one of the key pressures to marry is removed. Once there was no fault divorce and women did not need to prove why they needed to divorce, one of the key pressures to stay married is removed.
- dfxm12 2y ago
  Perhaps important, republicans from state lawmakers up to the VP are interested in repealing no fault divorce laws.
  - 542354234235 2y ago
    I am the opposite of surprised. How else are terrible, low-quality men going to trap women into a life of unpaid home labor if they can control their own finances, reproduction, and choice to enter or leave a marriage.
    - Tr3nton 2y ago
      [dead]
  - UncleMeat 2y ago
    As the gender gap in voting patterns widens, denying rights to women goes from not only being an ideological project of the right but a political project as well. "We will win more elections if women have less social power" is not a good situation to be in.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    And that's just what they'll openly admit to! Rest assured, they would absolutely not stop at no-fault divorce. They would undo all of the progress you mentioned, and likely more.
- Jensson 2y ago
  That happened a long time ago though, much much longer ago than the number of relationships started to drop, so its unrelated.
  - 542354234235 2y ago
    In 1969, California passed no-fault divorce, followed quickly by other states, and by the mid-80s, nearly all states had adopted no-fault divorce laws. In 1974, the Equal Credit Opportunity Act (ECOA) made it illegal for banks to discriminate in lending based on sex or marital status, allowing women to get credit cards, loans, etc. In 1978, the US passed the Pregnancy Discrimination Act. The rate of working women went from 30% in the post WWII 40s, to over 50% in the 1970s. And divorces. They went from 9.2% in 1960, to 22.9% in 1980, and have been slowly declining since then.

barry-cotter 2y ago

What do you mean by women’s rights? The difference in support for abortion by sex is trivial. https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opini...

wing-_-nuts 2y ago
Seeing a 3 point difference in the support for abortion between men and women is *wild* to me.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  Rest assured: Those 33% of women who say abortion should be "Illegal in all/most cases," would instantly carve out an exception for themselves if their own lives or livelihoods were in jeopardy from a pregnancy.
9rx 2y ago
Probably not abortion. While rights never happen in a vacuum, it is usually framed as a matter of fetus rights. How about a woman's right to equal employment opportunity? 67% of women are in favour of DEI, while most men (57%) take the opposing view. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/poll-american-voters-are-deeply-divided-dei-programs-political-correct-rcna196377 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/poll-american... The primary political parties are definitely catering to those sides.

DeathArrow 2y ago

Also white/black, straight/gay, poor/wealthy etc. We can find hundreds of dividing lines if we insist.

tekla 2y ago

Ah yes, one sex is diverging to the other side because they are wrong on MY pet issue. (This is not grounded in reality)

moolcool 2y ago

> Partly because women's rights have become so politicised. That's a hand-wavy way of saying that a core pillar of one of your parties is to take away the rights of an entire gender. Imagine describing 1940s Germany and saying "Ethnicity has become so politicized these days. I'm just interested in nationalizing the auto industry"

gosub100 2y ago
That would only be true if words weren't perverted for political leverage. Sexist used to mean "women can't do that" now sexist means "a woman experienced an unpleasant thing, and it carries more significance because of her gender, and if you dare dispute this you can expect to be cancelled".
- moolcool 2y ago
  I don't know if you're a news buff, but they're actually actively saying "women can't do that".
  - Jensson 2y ago
    That doesn't contradict what he said though, he didn't say the old sexists are no longer called sexist, he said the definition had expanded to cover many more than before.
    - moolcool 2y ago
      Why even say it then? What's the point of countering "Well, the definition has expanded so much", when the thing you're talking about conforms to the old definition?
      - gosub100 2y ago
        I said it because it's a dirty trick used by one side to make people think there's a crisis. When are you going to declare the problem solved? When every single living breathing human being conforms to your world view? Your argument is that someone, somewhere, said something terrible. Why even say it then? If course some people out of 8bn will have extremist views or utterances. Is that really a surprise?

pixl97 2y ago

>Partly because women's rights have become so politicised. What is the womans suffrage movement? I may be extrapolating on a single statement too far, but I do feel that you are missing a huge chunk of history regarding all the rights women (at least regarding the US) did not have. Womans rights have been political for the last 200 years if not longer.