6 ms·

This gets more complicated when you replace "friend" with "spouse" (/partner) because there comes up the problem of consensuality in unavoidably unpleasant unav

This gets more complicated when you replace "friend" with "spouse" (/partner) because there comes up the problem of consensuality in unavoidably unpleasant unavoidable decision-making.. (Assuming one marries for "love")

facile3232 2y ago
Politics feels like an integral part of finding a partner nowadays. Which makes sense—values are important to agree upon.
- viraptor 2y ago
  Really depends on the region. There's lots of opinions/ideas/directions/parties in many countries with lots of overlap. In the US... I'm not sure how relationships, that actually talk about things, can survive if partners have different party preferences.
  - facile3232 2y ago
    [dead]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- ta1243 2y ago
  The width of the spectrum of political views for 65% of people used to be relatively narrow. That's increasingly not the case.
  - pixl97 2y ago
    Capitalism "Choice is good!" Politics "Not like that, not like that!" I don't believe that political views used to be narrow, I believe the political views you were allowed to actually express were much more narrow and everything else was repressed.
galfarragem 2y ago
I believe having a partner with directly opposing political views is unsustainable. Partners with adjacent political views may be manageable, or even preferable to a fully aligned one, but those with directly opposing views are a constant source of drama and tension in your life. Political views often reflect deeply held values and beliefs.
- HPsquared 2y ago
  Political views can change over time though. It can be unsustainable in the way of "one or both people moderates their political views".
- basisword 2y ago
  >> those with directly opposing views are a constant source of drama and tension in your life I don't think this is true at all. The vast majority of people largely ignore politics, cast their vote, and move on with their lives. It's completely fine to have different political views if you both act like normal reasonable people. We see a lot of the 'kick, scream, and cry' types on both side in the media. In the real world, most people have more important things to be getting on with.
  - diggan 2y ago
    > It's completely fine to have different political views if you both act like normal reasonable people. Yes, this is true, you can have different political views and still be friends/lovers/partners/whatver. What parent said though was "directly opposing political views", which I'd also agree with is inviting trouble, as it'll leak out in constant tensions and frictions. Simple things like "We shouldn't drive as much as we currently do" can lead to heavy argumentation if the underlying reasoning cannot be understood by both parties. In real life, people might not speak about parties or political figures, but their everyday actions are driven by their values and beliefs, which also ends up reflected by who they vote for. Politics is everywhere, even where people don't speak of it directly.
    - basisword 2y ago
pjc50 2y ago
Note that various surveys report young women and young men diverging a lot more politically. Partly because women's rights have become so politicised.
- galfarragem 2y ago
  This trend is certainly one aspect of the explanation for the decline in the number of long-term relationships.
  - HPsquared 2y ago
    It could also be the opposite causality. Because people aren't getting into intimate relationships as much (looking out for each other, caring deeply about an individual of the opposite gender), the two groups are naturally diverging into preferring "what's best for ME". I think the political split between genders is MUCH stronger for singles. It's kind of a trap actually.
  - 542354234235 2y ago
    The other being that once women have largescale representation in the workforce, can open bank accounts and credit cards on their own, and can support themselves financially, one of the key pressures to marry is removed. Once there was no fault divorce and women did not need to prove why they needed to divorce, one of the key pressures to stay married is removed.
    - dfxm12 2y ago
      Perhaps important, republicans from state lawmakers up to the VP are interested in repealing no fault divorce laws.
      - 542354234235 2y ago
        I am the opposite of surprised. How else are terrible, low-quality men going to trap women into a life of unpaid home labor if they can control their own finances, reproduction, and choice to enter or leave a marriage.
jajko 2y ago
Marrying purely for "love" and ignoring core values, mindset compatibility, what they want in life and so on is a recipe for disaster, or at least some deep regrets down the line. I haven't seen nor heard about a single success story a decade or two down the line. Whom to marry is probably the most important decision in our lives. One of reasons why marrying early is too risky - people still massively change till at least 25-30, it cal still work but chances are smaller. Its a typical junior mistake to marry for love/lust and not think a bit on top of that, in this case I blame parents who don't have some hard talks with their kids explaining them not-so-rosy parts of adult existence. Like initial enormous physical attraction wanes over time, kids crush most of remaining, and what still remains are 2 people and how they treat relationship and each other with that lust tuned down eventually to 0, under various, often not so nice situations. But our parent's generation didn't figure it all out, in contrary the amount of actually nice relationships in higher ages ain't that high. I didn't have such prep talk neither, nor do I know anybody who had, and had to figure it all on my own via rough trials and failures till finally figuring myself and women out, and then happy marriage (so far, hard knock on the wood). Its like expecting everybody to be sophisticated engineer, learning them to count on fingers and throwing them out and good luck, I am sure you'll figure it out eventually. Some do, some don't. Most don't I'd say.
- HPsquared 2y ago
  This is the sort of thing they should teach in schools. English literature is a good venue for it.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- diggan 2y ago
  > Whom to marry is probably the most important decision in our lives. That's putting way too much pressure on it. Find someone you feel like you could spend the rest of your life with? Marry them, see what happens. If you get a divorce, so be it, it's not the end of the world and there is plenty of others out there, even if you're "damaged goods" or whatever your worry is. I feel like the pressure people put around marriage it what makes it so damaging in the first place, people feeling like they have to marry in the first place, or if they're married, they need to try to stick together more than some couple who isn't married, and so on. Just make a decision and learn from your mistakes in case you fuck up, it really isn't more complicated than that.

facile3232 2y ago

Politics feels like an integral part of finding a partner nowadays. Which makes sense—values are important to agree upon.

viraptor 2y ago
Really depends on the region. There's lots of opinions/ideas/directions/parties in many countries with lots of overlap. In the US... I'm not sure how relationships, that actually talk about things, can survive if partners have different party preferences.
- facile3232 2y ago
  [dead]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
ta1243 2y ago
The width of the spectrum of political views for 65% of people used to be relatively narrow. That's increasingly not the case.
- pixl97 2y ago
  Capitalism "Choice is good!" Politics "Not like that, not like that!" I don't believe that political views used to be narrow, I believe the political views you were allowed to actually express were much more narrow and everything else was repressed.

galfarragem 2y ago

I believe having a partner with directly opposing political views is unsustainable. Partners with adjacent political views may be manageable, or even preferable to a fully aligned one, but those with directly opposing views are a constant source of drama and tension in your life. Political views often reflect deeply held values and beliefs.

HPsquared 2y ago
Political views can change over time though. It can be unsustainable in the way of "one or both people moderates their political views".
basisword 2y ago
>> those with directly opposing views are a constant source of drama and tension in your life I don't think this is true at all. The vast majority of people largely ignore politics, cast their vote, and move on with their lives. It's completely fine to have different political views if you both act like normal reasonable people. We see a lot of the 'kick, scream, and cry' types on both side in the media. In the real world, most people have more important things to be getting on with.
- diggan 2y ago
  > It's completely fine to have different political views if you both act like normal reasonable people. Yes, this is true, you can have different political views and still be friends/lovers/partners/whatver. What parent said though was "directly opposing political views", which I'd also agree with is inviting trouble, as it'll leak out in constant tensions and frictions. Simple things like "We shouldn't drive as much as we currently do" can lead to heavy argumentation if the underlying reasoning cannot be understood by both parties. In real life, people might not speak about parties or political figures, but their everyday actions are driven by their values and beliefs, which also ends up reflected by who they vote for. Politics is everywhere, even where people don't speak of it directly.
  - basisword 2y ago

pjc50 2y ago

Note that various surveys report young women and young men diverging a lot more politically. Partly because women's rights have become so politicised.

galfarragem 2y ago
This trend is certainly one aspect of the explanation for the decline in the number of long-term relationships.
- HPsquared 2y ago
  It could also be the opposite causality. Because people aren't getting into intimate relationships as much (looking out for each other, caring deeply about an individual of the opposite gender), the two groups are naturally diverging into preferring "what's best for ME". I think the political split between genders is MUCH stronger for singles. It's kind of a trap actually.
- 542354234235 2y ago
  The other being that once women have largescale representation in the workforce, can open bank accounts and credit cards on their own, and can support themselves financially, one of the key pressures to marry is removed. Once there was no fault divorce and women did not need to prove why they needed to divorce, one of the key pressures to stay married is removed.
  - dfxm12 2y ago
    Perhaps important, republicans from state lawmakers up to the VP are interested in repealing no fault divorce laws.
    - 542354234235 2y ago
      I am the opposite of surprised. How else are terrible, low-quality men going to trap women into a life of unpaid home labor if they can control their own finances, reproduction, and choice to enter or leave a marriage.

jajko 2y ago

Marrying purely for "love" and ignoring core values, mindset compatibility, what they want in life and so on is a recipe for disaster, or at least some deep regrets down the line. I haven't seen nor heard about a single success story a decade or two down the line. Whom to marry is probably the most important decision in our lives. One of reasons why marrying early is too risky - people still massively change till at least 25-30, it cal still work but chances are smaller. Its a typical junior mistake to marry for love/lust and not think a bit on top of that, in this case I blame parents who don't have some hard talks with their kids explaining them not-so-rosy parts of adult existence. Like initial enormous physical attraction wanes over time, kids crush most of remaining, and what still remains are 2 people and how they treat relationship and each other with that lust tuned down eventually to 0, under various, often not so nice situations. But our parent's generation didn't figure it all out, in contrary the amount of actually nice relationships in higher ages ain't that high. I didn't have such prep talk neither, nor do I know anybody who had, and had to figure it all on my own via rough trials and failures till finally figuring myself and women out, and then happy marriage (so far, hard knock on the wood). Its like expecting everybody to be sophisticated engineer, learning them to count on fingers and throwing them out and good luck, I am sure you'll figure it out eventually. Some do, some don't. Most don't I'd say.

HPsquared 2y ago
This is the sort of thing they should teach in schools. English literature is a good venue for it.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
diggan 2y ago
> Whom to marry is probably the most important decision in our lives. That's putting way too much pressure on it. Find someone you feel like you could spend the rest of your life with? Marry them, see what happens. If you get a divorce, so be it, it's not the end of the world and there is plenty of others out there, even if you're "damaged goods" or whatever your worry is. I feel like the pressure people put around marriage it what makes it so damaging in the first place, people feeling like they have to marry in the first place, or if they're married, they need to try to stick together more than some couple who isn't married, and so on. Just make a decision and learn from your mistakes in case you fuck up, it really isn't more complicated than that.