4 ms·

I would recommend clicking on the link and scrolling down.

tekla 2y ago
Not answering question.
bakugo 2y ago
I did. It's almost nothing but intentionally obtuse terms that mask the actual issues being discussed. For example, what exactly is "gender-affirming care"? Because I suspect that includes giving life-altering drugs to young children.
- rimbo789 2y ago
  Gender-affirming care is good and needed to protect kids.
  - duckfan 2y ago
    A lot of people strongly believe this to be true. However, the evidence does not support this.
- banqjls 2y ago
  [flagged]
duckfan 2y ago
[dead]
- akimbostrawman 2y ago
  "destroying and erasing" trans people = not overtly pushing for there spread and acceptance
  - reef_sh 2y ago
    Assuming you're actually arguing in good faith, the "erasing" bit has been quite obvious and blatant. https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/13/us/stonewall-inn-national-monument-transgender/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/13/us/stonewall-inn-national... Removing people from information about a historical event doesn't look good under any lens.
    - duckfan 2y ago
      Doesn't this change make it more historically accurate? In 1969, the year of the Stonewall uprising, the "TQ+" hadn't been invented yet as a cultural concept. The Stonewall Inn was a gay bar and was being targeted for that reason.
      - reef_sh 2y ago
        Not really, no, especially considering the involvement of trans people in the event itself. For example, see the section regarding "Zazu Nova" on the current page https://www.nps.gov/ston/learn/photosmultimedia/virtual-fence-exhibit.htm https://www.nps.gov/ston/learn/photosmultimedia/virtual-fenc... and before the erasure https://web.archive.org/web/20250202042345/https://www.nps.gov/ston/learn/photosmultimedia/virtual-fence-exhibit.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20250202042345/https://www.nps.g...
        duckfan 2y ago
        Interesting to see the difference and I agree that's an inaccurate edit. For historical accuracy it should describe Zazu Nova as a gay man who was also a transvestite or drag queen.
        reef_sh 2y ago
        You do realize that "gay man", "transvestite", "drag queen", and "trans woman" are all different things right? None of them implies the others. And using any term besides trans woman would be disingenuous, as trans people existed before before 1969, with that exact nomenclature already existing. Just because the letters might not have been attached to an "LGBT" title, neither T or Q are new. Only their increased acceptance and knowledge is. And deleting references to those is, as you can see, seen as an obvious attempt to walk back on that public perception and acceptance. While ( as often is ) a very summarized version of the history can be found on the wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history , the sources should lead you to more detailed info, if you do care about learning about the historical accuracy.
StefanBatory 2y ago
I don't think they're arguing in a good faith with you. "“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”

Not answering question.

I did. It's almost nothing but intentionally obtuse terms that mask the actual issues being discussed. For example, what exactly is "gender-affirming care"? Because I suspect that includes giving life-altering drugs to young children.

rimbo789 2y ago
Gender-affirming care is good and needed to protect kids.
- duckfan 2y ago
  A lot of people strongly believe this to be true. However, the evidence does not support this.
banqjls 2y ago
[flagged]

duckfan 2y ago

[dead]

akimbostrawman 2y ago
"destroying and erasing" trans people = not overtly pushing for there spread and acceptance
- reef_sh 2y ago
  Assuming you're actually arguing in good faith, the "erasing" bit has been quite obvious and blatant. https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/13/us/stonewall-inn-national-monument-transgender/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/13/us/stonewall-inn-national... Removing people from information about a historical event doesn't look good under any lens.
  - duckfan 2y ago
    Doesn't this change make it more historically accurate? In 1969, the year of the Stonewall uprising, the "TQ+" hadn't been invented yet as a cultural concept. The Stonewall Inn was a gay bar and was being targeted for that reason.
    - reef_sh 2y ago
      Not really, no, especially considering the involvement of trans people in the event itself. For example, see the section regarding "Zazu Nova" on the current page https://www.nps.gov/ston/learn/photosmultimedia/virtual-fence-exhibit.htm https://www.nps.gov/ston/learn/photosmultimedia/virtual-fenc... and before the erasure https://web.archive.org/web/20250202042345/https://www.nps.gov/ston/learn/photosmultimedia/virtual-fence-exhibit.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20250202042345/https://www.nps.g...
      - duckfan 2y ago
        Interesting to see the difference and I agree that's an inaccurate edit. For historical accuracy it should describe Zazu Nova as a gay man who was also a transvestite or drag queen.
        reef_sh 2y ago
        You do realize that "gay man", "transvestite", "drag queen", and "trans woman" are all different things right? None of them implies the others. And using any term besides trans woman would be disingenuous, as trans people existed before before 1969, with that exact nomenclature already existing. Just because the letters might not have been attached to an "LGBT" title, neither T or Q are new. Only their increased acceptance and knowledge is. And deleting references to those is, as you can see, seen as an obvious attempt to walk back on that public perception and acceptance. While ( as often is ) a very summarized version of the history can be found on the wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history , the sources should lead you to more detailed info, if you do care about learning about the historical accuracy.

StefanBatory 2y ago

I don't think they're arguing in a good faith with you. "“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”