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I am from the US and my understanding is that we are one of the only (if not the only) Western democracy that doesn't require photo ID for voting. We do, howev

I am from the US and my understanding is that we are one of the only (if not the only) Western democracy that doesn't require photo ID for voting. We do, however, need photo ID or at least a Social Security number for pretty much everything else (applying for loans, opening bank accounts, buying a house or car, starting a new job, getting married, etc). The amount of things you can do without personally identifying yourself in some way is so small that I'm also not sure what additional power a Real ID gives to the government.

tzs 2y ago
> I am from the US and my understanding is that we are one of the only (if not the only) Western democracy that doesn't require photo ID for voting. We are I think also the only one that both (1) has a significant number of eligible voters who do not have a photo ID and (2) in many states the party that controls the government and sets the rules for getting ID sets those rules to try to make it hard for people who tend to vote for the other party to get ID and make it easy for those who vote for their party to get ID. > We do, however, need photo ID or at least a Social Security number for pretty much everything else (applying for loans, opening bank accounts, buying a house or car, starting a new job, getting married, etc). There are a significant number of citizens who don't use credit, don't have bank accounts, don't have cars, work at off the record jobs that pay in cash or check (to cash a check all you need is someone you trust enough who has a bank account and then you can do a third party endorsement and let them cash it for you).
- dpc_01234 2y ago
  In a functional political situation all sides would rationally talk with each other and agree on something that makes it workable. "National Id would be overwhelmingly positive, but here are the corner cases in which it doesn't work well, so let's have exceptions, alternatives, accommodations, etc. to make it work well for everyone. And "we're worried about this and that and that", so let's agree on some mechanisms to counterbalance it. > There are a significant number of citizens who don't use credit, ... They can still do that. But they would need an id. It's interesting however, what are their motivations. Are they just so poor that getting an Id is a burden? Is it a religious / ideological thing? Are they hiding from the government either due to distrust or some legal matters?
- ike2792 2y ago
  > There are a significant number of citizens who don't use credit, don't have bank accounts, don't have cars, work at off the record jobs that pay in cash or check (to cash a check all you need is someone you trust enough who has a bank account and then you can do a third party endorsement and let them cash it for you). Do you know of any statistics on this? I knew a lot of people like this when I was growing up in the rural midwest in the 90s but it would have to be a lot more difficult to get by this way now.
  - tzs 2y ago
    Here's some. 23% of people making less than $25k/year do not have bank accounts [1]. 20% of Black households in the US do not have access to a car [2]. That one also says that 17% of Black households are unbanked. For Americans overall this [3] says 8.7% of households do not have access to a working vehicle. > I knew a lot of people like this when I was growing up in the rural midwest in the 90s but it would have to be a lot more difficult to get by this way now. It probably is. For example before 1996 flying on a commercial airline was about as easy as getting into a movie theater. If you had a ticket you got in. They didn't care if you were actually the one who bought the ticket. They stated caring after TWA Flight 800, and caring even more after 9/11. I think hotels check ID more now too. I'm sure there are other things. But a lot of those things are things that poor don't actually do much of. Another thing that probably makes it still feasible to get by that way is that people who don't have credit, cars, bank accounts, etc often live in communities with many other people in the same situation. Such a community is likely to have a significant underground economy that has developed to handle that. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/02/23percent-of-low-income-americans-are-living-without-a-bank-account.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/02/23percent-of-low-income-amer... [2] https://www.cbcfinc.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/NewRoutestoEquity-Final5.pdf https://www.cbcfinc.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/NewRoutes... [3] https://www.thezebra.com/resources/research/car-ownership-statistics/ https://www.thezebra.com/resources/research/car-ownership-st...

tzs 2y ago

> I am from the US and my understanding is that we are one of the only (if not the only) Western democracy that doesn't require photo ID for voting. We are I think also the only one that both (1) has a significant number of eligible voters who do not have a photo ID and (2) in many states the party that controls the government and sets the rules for getting ID sets those rules to try to make it hard for people who tend to vote for the other party to get ID and make it easy for those who vote for their party to get ID. > We do, however, need photo ID or at least a Social Security number for pretty much everything else (applying for loans, opening bank accounts, buying a house or car, starting a new job, getting married, etc). There are a significant number of citizens who don't use credit, don't have bank accounts, don't have cars, work at off the record jobs that pay in cash or check (to cash a check all you need is someone you trust enough who has a bank account and then you can do a third party endorsement and let them cash it for you).

dpc_01234 2y ago
In a functional political situation all sides would rationally talk with each other and agree on something that makes it workable. "National Id would be overwhelmingly positive, but here are the corner cases in which it doesn't work well, so let's have exceptions, alternatives, accommodations, etc. to make it work well for everyone. And "we're worried about this and that and that", so let's agree on some mechanisms to counterbalance it. > There are a significant number of citizens who don't use credit, ... They can still do that. But they would need an id. It's interesting however, what are their motivations. Are they just so poor that getting an Id is a burden? Is it a religious / ideological thing? Are they hiding from the government either due to distrust or some legal matters?
ike2792 2y ago
> There are a significant number of citizens who don't use credit, don't have bank accounts, don't have cars, work at off the record jobs that pay in cash or check (to cash a check all you need is someone you trust enough who has a bank account and then you can do a third party endorsement and let them cash it for you). Do you know of any statistics on this? I knew a lot of people like this when I was growing up in the rural midwest in the 90s but it would have to be a lot more difficult to get by this way now.
- tzs 2y ago
  Here's some. 23% of people making less than $25k/year do not have bank accounts [1]. 20% of Black households in the US do not have access to a car [2]. That one also says that 17% of Black households are unbanked. For Americans overall this [3] says 8.7% of households do not have access to a working vehicle. > I knew a lot of people like this when I was growing up in the rural midwest in the 90s but it would have to be a lot more difficult to get by this way now. It probably is. For example before 1996 flying on a commercial airline was about as easy as getting into a movie theater. If you had a ticket you got in. They didn't care if you were actually the one who bought the ticket. They stated caring after TWA Flight 800, and caring even more after 9/11. I think hotels check ID more now too. I'm sure there are other things. But a lot of those things are things that poor don't actually do much of. Another thing that probably makes it still feasible to get by that way is that people who don't have credit, cars, bank accounts, etc often live in communities with many other people in the same situation. Such a community is likely to have a significant underground economy that has developed to handle that. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/02/23percent-of-low-income-americans-are-living-without-a-bank-account.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/02/23percent-of-low-income-amer... [2] https://www.cbcfinc.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/NewRoutestoEquity-Final5.pdf https://www.cbcfinc.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/NewRoutes... [3] https://www.thezebra.com/resources/research/car-ownership-statistics/ https://www.thezebra.com/resources/research/car-ownership-st...