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I very well believe this could be true. However, after hearing of many studies that don’t get published unless they confirm the suspicion of racial prejudice I

I very well believe this could be true. However, after hearing of many studies that don’t get published unless they confirm the suspicion of racial prejudice I don’t even know what to believe anymore. Side effect of a post-truth society locked in endless red-blue proxy fights I guess. I don’t know why we need police doing traffic enforcement. The cars know how fast they are going, the cars know where they are, the cars know what the speed limit is, why are they able to speed? Enforcement should be fully automated and violations should be forced to provide evidence of a special situation id they do speed eg: in labor etc. or a ticket is automatically issued. Also in favor of governors on max acceleration and relative force generation for large heavy vehicles. Eg: 9k lb electric truck can do 0-60 in a minimum of 8seconds.

viraptor 2y ago
> I don’t even know what to believe anymore Good research? Even if studies which did not find this problem were not published, if the methodology is correct this study is correct regardless of external pressures. > The cars know how fast they are going They don't. My car's displayed speed is 5% higher than actual speed. It will change a little bit again after the next tire replacement. > the cars know where they are They don't. Not only are there no up to date maps for permanent roads, roadworks will add changes and in downtown gps will happily put you on the road on the other side of a high-rise. > the cars know what the speed limit is Again, up to date global, correct, precise maps do not exist and will not exist. Vision can't be relied on either, because bad luck can make a speed limit invisible.
- pclowes 2y ago
  You don't believe there has been widespread failures if not malpractice and outright fraud in many journals and published studies resulting in replication crises and performative/self-serving peer review over the last several years? Also cars can read speed limit signs pretty accurately. GPS is pretty accurate. It should not be possible to go highway speeds in areas that are purely residential and miles away from the highway. Also we could make a more accurate map enforcement system. Not trivial but straightforward.
  - viraptor 2y ago
    > ... over the last several years? I'm taking about this specific research here. > cars can read speed limit signs pretty accurately. Only when they're not covered by trees, snow, other cars, are not damaged, workers didn't forget to uncover them, etc. And from time to time you will sync with a car in another lane just the right way to miss the sign. > GPS is pretty accurate Often. Yet, I will regularly get placed on the wrong road in larger cities. It doesn't have to be a highway speed problem - since the idea is automated enforcement, going 10k/h over the limit of the parallel street is already an issue. > we could make a more accurate map enforcement system Maybe in a distant future. Right now, we're at step 0: there's no publicly available accurate digital map of all streets. There are various segments in different agencies, there are global commercial maps, and there are community efforts. Until that's solved, the issue is moot.
    - pclowes 2y ago
      I just don’t think it is that hard of a problem. The legislative hurdle is much higher than the technological difficulty. You can always fail safe. Eg (extreme case) unless your car can prove to itself it is on a highway or a high-speed street it can only go 25 mph.
      - viraptor 2y ago
        > prove to itself it is on a highway or a high-speed street it can only go 25 mph. GPS attacks are real and even common in some areas. Do you know how much havoc could an adversary cause on traffic / cargo transport if this was implemented? Imagine a large American highway near a big city being blocked that way for days.
        pclowes 2y ago
        You could override it and i am sure “gps attack” would be an allowed exception. People can hack cars already. We didnt always have to make everything to serve cars and we can stop anytime we want.
AlexandrB 2y ago
It's all fun and games until these same concepts are applied to computers and Windows prevents you from typing anything potentially "hateful" while pinging the government so you can get fined appropriately. We're nearly there actually with technologies like Gatekeeper and OSs requiring account creation to use, so I expect to see it in my lifetime. The missing piece was the ability to classify content automatically in real time, but luckily AI came along.
- pclowes 2y ago
  A large heavy car going from 0-60 in 4 seconds through a mass of innocent people on Bourbon St is different than words online.
dmicah 2y ago
Also consider that traffic violations are a source of funding for a municipality. Using technology to eliminate violations completely may not be desirable.

viraptor 2y ago

> I don’t even know what to believe anymore Good research? Even if studies which did not find this problem were not published, if the methodology is correct this study is correct regardless of external pressures. > The cars know how fast they are going They don't. My car's displayed speed is 5% higher than actual speed. It will change a little bit again after the next tire replacement. > the cars know where they are They don't. Not only are there no up to date maps for permanent roads, roadworks will add changes and in downtown gps will happily put you on the road on the other side of a high-rise. > the cars know what the speed limit is Again, up to date global, correct, precise maps do not exist and will not exist. Vision can't be relied on either, because bad luck can make a speed limit invisible.

pclowes 2y ago
You don't believe there has been widespread failures if not malpractice and outright fraud in many journals and published studies resulting in replication crises and performative/self-serving peer review over the last several years? Also cars can read speed limit signs pretty accurately. GPS is pretty accurate. It should not be possible to go highway speeds in areas that are purely residential and miles away from the highway. Also we could make a more accurate map enforcement system. Not trivial but straightforward.
- viraptor 2y ago
  > ... over the last several years? I'm taking about this specific research here. > cars can read speed limit signs pretty accurately. Only when they're not covered by trees, snow, other cars, are not damaged, workers didn't forget to uncover them, etc. And from time to time you will sync with a car in another lane just the right way to miss the sign. > GPS is pretty accurate Often. Yet, I will regularly get placed on the wrong road in larger cities. It doesn't have to be a highway speed problem - since the idea is automated enforcement, going 10k/h over the limit of the parallel street is already an issue. > we could make a more accurate map enforcement system Maybe in a distant future. Right now, we're at step 0: there's no publicly available accurate digital map of all streets. There are various segments in different agencies, there are global commercial maps, and there are community efforts. Until that's solved, the issue is moot.
  - pclowes 2y ago
    I just don’t think it is that hard of a problem. The legislative hurdle is much higher than the technological difficulty. You can always fail safe. Eg (extreme case) unless your car can prove to itself it is on a highway or a high-speed street it can only go 25 mph.
    - viraptor 2y ago
      > prove to itself it is on a highway or a high-speed street it can only go 25 mph. GPS attacks are real and even common in some areas. Do you know how much havoc could an adversary cause on traffic / cargo transport if this was implemented? Imagine a large American highway near a big city being blocked that way for days.
      - pclowes 2y ago
        You could override it and i am sure “gps attack” would be an allowed exception. People can hack cars already. We didnt always have to make everything to serve cars and we can stop anytime we want.

AlexandrB 2y ago

It's all fun and games until these same concepts are applied to computers and Windows prevents you from typing anything potentially "hateful" while pinging the government so you can get fined appropriately. We're nearly there actually with technologies like Gatekeeper and OSs requiring account creation to use, so I expect to see it in my lifetime. The missing piece was the ability to classify content automatically in real time, but luckily AI came along.

pclowes 2y ago
A large heavy car going from 0-60 in 4 seconds through a mass of innocent people on Bourbon St is different than words online.

dmicah 2y ago

Also consider that traffic violations are a source of funding for a municipality. Using technology to eliminate violations completely may not be desirable.