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I like it. There's an easier answer to "why don't people move from tribe to view". It's because it's painful to question one's own beliefs, and that's how that
by simpaticoder 1y ago
I like it. There's an easier answer to "why don't people move from tribe to view". It's because it's painful to question one's own beliefs, and that's how that change happens. In fact such a move appears masochistic to many, since it almost never pays to undermine loyalty in favor of principle.
I hypothesize that we're seeing the influence of the legal system on the public turbo-charged by Citizens United money. An attorney is paid to be a "zealous advocate" for their client. This means never spending effort on anything that might be against the client's interest. Self-reflection is stochastically against their interest, so why even risk it? Considering alternative views might be against your interest, so why risk it? Therefore, in this new zeitgeist, such behavior is not just perverse and painful, but even unethical and wrong.
The problem, of course, is that for this system of adversarial argument you need an impartial judge. In theory that would be the public, but it turns out flooding people's minds with unethical lawyer screed 24x7 turns more people into lawyers, not judges. "The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it." This could very well refer to the value of dignity, honor, integrity, fairness in debate, respect for one's opponents. These are always under assault, but in the last 10 years they have been decimated to the point people don't remember they ever held sway and young people don't know what politics was like when they did.
- shw1n 1y ago"since it almost never pays to undermine loyalty in favor of principle" nailed it imo, thanks for reading!
- jchw 1y agoChallenging your own viewpoints is not just hard, it's downright dangerous. You can really lose your sense of identity and question your own morals if you are not well-grounded. It's much easier to dig your heels in and try to limit your self-reflection to be more "safe". (I still think you should question your viewpoints, but I don't blame people for being a little afraid.) This is especially true if you have a history of being somewhat cruel to people on the basis of a conclusion you're not really 100% sure you agree with anymore. Now if you question it, you have a lot of guilt to contend with.
- shw1n 1y agoYep agree with this a lot, identity-shattering is dangerous indeed
- johnea 1y agoI totally disagree. "Shattering" one's identity (which is a completely fictional idea, only existing inside one's head) is essential for finding one's place in the universe. Failure to adopt an accurate perspective of one's place in the universe is the greatest source of human anxiety. Plus, if you can't discuss something like politics with people, are they really your friends at all? Not very good ones at least...
- shw1n 1y agoSorry I should clarify, I personally agree with you and share your opinion on shattering identifies being a positive But I understand why someone may not want to I guess
- techpineapple 1y agoI would say as I've gotten older, I've actually tried to be a little more grounded in my beliefs. Our political world is so crazy, that I think sometimes, it can even be hard being committed to basic kindergarten morality. "Look at all these bad people doing bad things and being successful, maybe I should do bad things to be more successful" is a challenge to your viewpoints that is worth cutting off at the roots.
- hathawsh 1y agoOTOH, I am the kind of person who feels great joy in discovering that I have been wrong about something, I have learned something better, and I have deepened my understanding. It could be about anything. Challenging my viewpoints is very enjoyable. It surprises me that most people don't seem to feel that way and I struggle to understand why. Apparently, people often feel angry and alienated by the truth. I think that never makes sense, but I've learned to accept that people simply feel threatened by the truth sometimes and I can't usually convince them otherwise.
- jgord 1y ago.. "we will need writers who remember freedom" Ursula Le Guin Both of our best ways at getting to the truth - Journalism and Science - rely on entertaining and following all sorts of contradictory ideas and then comparing them with observed reality. Universities in particular need to be physically safe spaces, where ideas of every kind can be mercilessly attacked. We are losing what took so long to build.
- lanfeust6 1y agoThey become too entangled with identity. The advantage of holding one's identity loosely, and attributing it one's actions, is it facilitates changing one's mind about certain things, or updating beliefs in increments.
- yungporko 1y ago> There's an easier answer to "why don't people move from tribe to view" yep, it's "why would i risk finding out i'm wrong when everybody around me already thinks i'm right"