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I thought thats why we had urls not only IP addresses .. which reminds me, who has control over DOI.org ... eg. is it DOGE-safe ? likewise arXiv .. can it easi

by jgord 2y ago

I thought thats why we had urls not only IP addresses .. which reminds me, who has control over DOI.org ... eg. is it DOGE-safe ? likewise arXiv .. can it easily be co-opted / subsumed ?

sebmellen 2y ago
I’ve met the folks behind DOI. Very nice people (Jonathan Clark in particular). It’s an independent foundation and they have backups/contingency plans established with major universities to preserve the DOI records in the event the foundation fails. https://www.doi.org/the-foundation/board-and-governance/ https://www.doi.org/the-foundation/board-and-governance/
- jgord 2y ago
  .. we need a Foundation .. and a second Foundation :]
  - hkt 2y ago
    It's just like O'Brien always said.. you've _got_ to have a redundant backup. (Third foundation?)
- j-pb 2y ago
  Their whole organisation should have been a hash function... DOI must die
  - PaulHoule 2y ago
    Should be done with Web3.
    - j-pb 2y ago
      Scientific publishing is one of the very few legit use cases for block-chains imo. But magnet links and the BitTorrent mainline hash-table are a better DOI than DOI.
      - sebmellen 2y ago
        DOIs exist so they can be human readable and simultaneously indicate the source and veracity of it. They’re somewhat gated as well which serves a function.
        __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
        Are they human readable? As for veracity, wouldn't baking a digital signature into the paper itself be far more reliable? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they exist, but they appear to guard against humans who are lazy and make mistakes sometimes rather than against a powerful adversary motivated to interfere with science. It might be time for an upgrade.
        j-pb 2y ago
        Yet they are bad at every one of those points. * An auto increment ID is just as human non-readable as a UUID, it's just easier to get silent collisions from typos. * The Source is metadata that belongs in a metadata system, not into the ID itself * the veracity is worthless without verifiability * gated-ness is just an anti-feature caused by the lack of verifiability If you you classify identifiers along different axis of their properties, you'll notice that DOIs actually inhabit the completely wrong quadrant for their use-case. (https://docs.rs/tribles/0.5.1/tribles/id/index.html https://docs.rs/tribles/0.5.1/tribles/id/index.html)
__MatrixMan__ 2y ago
Maybe it would be better to identify papers via a hash of their contents so that there's nothing to co-opt.
- jgord 2y ago
  ... theres an argument to having arXiv paper hashes, and/or important digitalia checksums put on a blockchain. detect-ability of state-actor post-facto editing : DEI related or otherwise

by jgord 2y ago

I thought thats why we had urls not only IP addresses .. which reminds me, who has control over DOI.org ... eg. is it DOGE-safe ? likewise arXiv .. can it easily be co-opted / subsumed ?

sebmellen 2y ago

I’ve met the folks behind DOI. Very nice people (Jonathan Clark in particular). It’s an independent foundation and they have backups/contingency plans established with major universities to preserve the DOI records in the event the foundation fails. https://www.doi.org/the-foundation/board-and-governance/ https://www.doi.org/the-foundation/board-and-governance/

jgord 2y ago
.. we need a Foundation .. and a second Foundation :]
- hkt 2y ago
  It's just like O'Brien always said.. you've _got_ to have a redundant backup. (Third foundation?)
j-pb 2y ago
Their whole organisation should have been a hash function... DOI must die
- PaulHoule 2y ago
  Should be done with Web3.
  - j-pb 2y ago
    Scientific publishing is one of the very few legit use cases for block-chains imo. But magnet links and the BitTorrent mainline hash-table are a better DOI than DOI.
    - sebmellen 2y ago
      DOIs exist so they can be human readable and simultaneously indicate the source and veracity of it. They’re somewhat gated as well which serves a function.
      - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
        Are they human readable? As for veracity, wouldn't baking a digital signature into the paper itself be far more reliable? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they exist, but they appear to guard against humans who are lazy and make mistakes sometimes rather than against a powerful adversary motivated to interfere with science. It might be time for an upgrade.
      - j-pb 2y ago
        Yet they are bad at every one of those points. * An auto increment ID is just as human non-readable as a UUID, it's just easier to get silent collisions from typos. * The Source is metadata that belongs in a metadata system, not into the ID itself * the veracity is worthless without verifiability * gated-ness is just an anti-feature caused by the lack of verifiability If you you classify identifiers along different axis of their properties, you'll notice that DOIs actually inhabit the completely wrong quadrant for their use-case. (https://docs.rs/tribles/0.5.1/tribles/id/index.html https://docs.rs/tribles/0.5.1/tribles/id/index.html)

__MatrixMan__ 2y ago

Maybe it would be better to identify papers via a hash of their contents so that there's nothing to co-opt.

jgord 2y ago
... theres an argument to having arXiv paper hashes, and/or important digitalia checksums put on a blockchain. detect-ability of state-actor post-facto editing : DEI related or otherwise