7 ms·

I’m not sure what the author expected? I imagine the royalties and advance were agreed upon in advance, surely they could do the calculus then? I think the fun

I’m not sure what the author expected? I imagine the royalties and advance were agreed upon in advance, surely they could do the calculus then? I think the fundamental issue is thinking that you can make a living writing a book for 2.5 years that only sells 500-2000 copies. At the upper end, if she got the full £10 per book for 2000 copies, that’s still not a livable wage… Is the author just upset about the way the world works?

WorkerBee28474 2y ago
> Is the author just upset about the way the world works? Yes. The author has chosen to work on something she loves, without regard to whether anyone will pay her to do it, and is complaining that no one will pay her to do it.
tornadofart 2y ago
I did not read it as being upset. Drawing the public's attention to the economics of publishing and showing how to support an author you like is OK, no?
MinimalAction 2y ago
It is not that they didn't know the calculus. You seem to suggest that writing altogether is economically unviable, so the author should not have chosen to do that at all. The issue is that certain talents are not recognized at all, and if you like reading, then buy the books outright, pre-order it, ask your library to get it. Basically, an effort to reward those who show up and contribute to a profession as noble as writing.
- christina97 2y ago
  I’m not suggesting at all that the author should not have chosen to do it. No such judgement. I’m simply interpreting the authors tone: it sounds to me frustrated and as if she feels she’s been wronged by “the system.” Maybe I simply misinterpreted the tone!
  - wrs 2y ago
    I didn't get that impression. I think she just wants the readers to not have a misconception of how much she's getting paid for the book they're (hopefully) enjoying. I hear a lot of similar sentiments from musicians whose fans think they're making any money by touring or streaming. And they get the same advice I'm seeing in this thread: you can't just be a musician anymore, you have to also be a social media expert, marketer, bookkeeper, recording engineer…in other words all the stuff the music label / publisher used to do so you could focus on the actual artwork.
    - tossandthrow 2y ago
      >... whose fans think they're making any money... I am curious about this. I might be alone, but very rarely do I think about what the authors I enjoy, or musicians I enjoy earn. I am constantly, however, being exposed to what tailor swift earns. But I absolutely don't make myself belive that German niche Orchestras make comparable amounts. Being a musician, author etc. Does not pay well. And nobody has ever told them elsewise, or is telling them elsewise. It has really always been the case. So it rings hollow when authors and musicians try to put awareness on their earnings.
- jonas21 2y ago
  > if you like reading, then buy the books outright, pre-order it, ask your library to get it. I don't think the issue is that people are reading her book without buying it or requesting it at the library. The issue is that not enough people want to read it in the first place. That's just the way things work. Far more people want to write books than can be supported by the market.
- orangecat 2y ago
  You seem to suggest that writing altogether is economically unviable, so the author should not have chosen to do that at all. Sort of, yes. Or at least don't do it expecting to be immediately financially successful. The same way that you shouldn't go into game development and then be outraged that you're not making as much as SAP consultants. The issue is that certain talents are not recognized at all It's more that there's tons of aspiring authors, and supply and demand is a thing.
nyeah 2y ago
I'm surprised that anyone can read this coldly factual post about volunteer work that benefits society and pays next to nothing ... and then somehow come up with an antagonistic response. YMMV. But I never read about St. Francis, say, and thought to myself "Shut up already. What ever made you think the bird gig was going to pay off?" EDIT: "Benefits society" in the aggregate. This particular woman may write utterly worthless books that benefit nobody. I don't know.
- paxys 2y ago
  There are an estimated 4 million books published every year. Not all of them are "volunteer work that benefits society". I'm going to go ahead and assume it's a very, very tiny minority of them. Most writers (and certainly every single one I know) have nothing to contribute to society except their own vanity. I have nothing against creative expression, but when people start splashing a bucket of paint on a canvas and going "I'm an artist, I deserve to have a comfortable life" I can't help but roll my eyes.
  - nyeah 2y ago
    When did she say she deserved a comfortable life? She writes. She doesn't get paid. Where are these bad vibes coming from?
    - paxys 2y ago
      What was your takeaway from the article?
      - nyeah 2y ago
        Almost no writers make significant money from their writing.
        paxys 2y ago
        And what was the call to action?
paxys 2y ago
It's just wild to me that someone spent two and a half years of their life perfecting their book and then...sold away the rights for £2,500. At that point just self publish, or even put it up for free on the internet with a "donate" button next to it. Why devalue your own work to this degree?
- crazygringo 2y ago
  Not that it changes your overall point, but they didn't. They sold away the rights before they spent the two and a half years writing their book. If they hadn't gotten the advance and therefore the ~guarantee it would get published, they might not have written it in the first place. But they can't choose to self-publish after they finish it, because they chose to sign their contract long before that.
6stringmerc 2y ago
Okay so I’m also a writer - self publishing on Medium (and earn $x.xx occasionally some months) and also a 100% independent musician and producer and songwriter. I release through DistroKid which I found here ages ago. I actually lose money by having it available to stream. You are absolutely spot on about the tone. It’s incredibly whiny and woe-is-me and complaining about a system that, as she admits, is known to be poverty level revenue for the vast majority. The big tell is “support authors!” as if it’s some kind of requirement people do more than simply sustain an industry already on the brink. She has the gall to even get an advance, publish, and make it the audience’s guilt trip she’s gotta tell people she didn’t make squat? That’s a high horse. I dislike the article and its perspective. It’s PETULANT. Thousands of writers simply appreciate audiences for sharing their TIME for reading a piece. This article? It’s a dressed up complaint and I’ll have none of what she’s having. For reference, I’ve got 10k Spotify plays, worldwide, over the course of 10 years and it’s under $20 worth of revenue. When I write about this fact, I don’t complain about the income. What is my big takeaway? I’m grateful people I’ve never met and will likely never meet have found my music worth listening to and chosen to give it a little slice of their life. That’s a good perspective, a healthy one, and I’m with you on your impression.
- CRConrad 2y ago
  I dislike your comment and its perspective. It’s PETULANT.

WorkerBee28474 2y ago

> Is the author just upset about the way the world works? Yes. The author has chosen to work on something she loves, without regard to whether anyone will pay her to do it, and is complaining that no one will pay her to do it.

tornadofart 2y ago

I did not read it as being upset. Drawing the public's attention to the economics of publishing and showing how to support an author you like is OK, no?

MinimalAction 2y ago

It is not that they didn't know the calculus. You seem to suggest that writing altogether is economically unviable, so the author should not have chosen to do that at all. The issue is that certain talents are not recognized at all, and if you like reading, then buy the books outright, pre-order it, ask your library to get it. Basically, an effort to reward those who show up and contribute to a profession as noble as writing.

christina97 2y ago
I’m not suggesting at all that the author should not have chosen to do it. No such judgement. I’m simply interpreting the authors tone: it sounds to me frustrated and as if she feels she’s been wronged by “the system.” Maybe I simply misinterpreted the tone!
- wrs 2y ago
  I didn't get that impression. I think she just wants the readers to not have a misconception of how much she's getting paid for the book they're (hopefully) enjoying. I hear a lot of similar sentiments from musicians whose fans think they're making any money by touring or streaming. And they get the same advice I'm seeing in this thread: you can't just be a musician anymore, you have to also be a social media expert, marketer, bookkeeper, recording engineer…in other words all the stuff the music label / publisher used to do so you could focus on the actual artwork.
  - tossandthrow 2y ago
    >... whose fans think they're making any money... I am curious about this. I might be alone, but very rarely do I think about what the authors I enjoy, or musicians I enjoy earn. I am constantly, however, being exposed to what tailor swift earns. But I absolutely don't make myself belive that German niche Orchestras make comparable amounts. Being a musician, author etc. Does not pay well. And nobody has ever told them elsewise, or is telling them elsewise. It has really always been the case. So it rings hollow when authors and musicians try to put awareness on their earnings.
jonas21 2y ago
> if you like reading, then buy the books outright, pre-order it, ask your library to get it. I don't think the issue is that people are reading her book without buying it or requesting it at the library. The issue is that not enough people want to read it in the first place. That's just the way things work. Far more people want to write books than can be supported by the market.
orangecat 2y ago
You seem to suggest that writing altogether is economically unviable, so the author should not have chosen to do that at all. Sort of, yes. Or at least don't do it expecting to be immediately financially successful. The same way that you shouldn't go into game development and then be outraged that you're not making as much as SAP consultants. The issue is that certain talents are not recognized at all It's more that there's tons of aspiring authors, and supply and demand is a thing.

nyeah 2y ago

I'm surprised that anyone can read this coldly factual post about volunteer work that benefits society and pays next to nothing ... and then somehow come up with an antagonistic response. YMMV. But I never read about St. Francis, say, and thought to myself "Shut up already. What ever made you think the bird gig was going to pay off?" EDIT: "Benefits society" in the aggregate. This particular woman may write utterly worthless books that benefit nobody. I don't know.

paxys 2y ago
There are an estimated 4 million books published every year. Not all of them are "volunteer work that benefits society". I'm going to go ahead and assume it's a very, very tiny minority of them. Most writers (and certainly every single one I know) have nothing to contribute to society except their own vanity. I have nothing against creative expression, but when people start splashing a bucket of paint on a canvas and going "I'm an artist, I deserve to have a comfortable life" I can't help but roll my eyes.
- nyeah 2y ago
  When did she say she deserved a comfortable life? She writes. She doesn't get paid. Where are these bad vibes coming from?
  - paxys 2y ago
    What was your takeaway from the article?
    - nyeah 2y ago
      Almost no writers make significant money from their writing.
      - paxys 2y ago
        And what was the call to action?

paxys 2y ago

It's just wild to me that someone spent two and a half years of their life perfecting their book and then...sold away the rights for £2,500. At that point just self publish, or even put it up for free on the internet with a "donate" button next to it. Why devalue your own work to this degree?

crazygringo 2y ago
Not that it changes your overall point, but they didn't. They sold away the rights before they spent the two and a half years writing their book. If they hadn't gotten the advance and therefore the ~guarantee it would get published, they might not have written it in the first place. But they can't choose to self-publish after they finish it, because they chose to sign their contract long before that.

6stringmerc 2y ago

Okay so I’m also a writer - self publishing on Medium (and earn $x.xx occasionally some months) and also a 100% independent musician and producer and songwriter. I release through DistroKid which I found here ages ago. I actually lose money by having it available to stream. You are absolutely spot on about the tone. It’s incredibly whiny and woe-is-me and complaining about a system that, as she admits, is known to be poverty level revenue for the vast majority. The big tell is “support authors!” as if it’s some kind of requirement people do more than simply sustain an industry already on the brink. She has the gall to even get an advance, publish, and make it the audience’s guilt trip she’s gotta tell people she didn’t make squat? That’s a high horse. I dislike the article and its perspective. It’s PETULANT. Thousands of writers simply appreciate audiences for sharing their TIME for reading a piece. This article? It’s a dressed up complaint and I’ll have none of what she’s having. For reference, I’ve got 10k Spotify plays, worldwide, over the course of 10 years and it’s under $20 worth of revenue. When I write about this fact, I don’t complain about the income. What is my big takeaway? I’m grateful people I’ve never met and will likely never meet have found my music worth listening to and chosen to give it a little slice of their life. That’s a good perspective, a healthy one, and I’m with you on your impression.

CRConrad 2y ago
I dislike your comment and its perspective. It’s PETULANT.