4 ms·

Arguments against merit make two errors. First is treating it as a formula, not a correlation. Second is conflating merit for free will. Merit is not about fre

Arguments against merit make two errors. First is treating it as a formula, not a correlation. Second is conflating merit for free will. Merit is not about freedom from circumstance. As the article points out, luck can be stow someone with more merit. Someone can have better parenting, education or genes through no action of their own. This does not mean they lack merit. Merit is a performance metric. Working hard or having talent won't always result in equal rewards in the real world. Nobody is making this straw man. However, talent and effort improve outcomes relative to lack of talent and lack of effort, all else being equal.

tonyedgecombe 2y ago
> Nobody is making this straw man. Actually I think many are, including a lot of politicians.
roxolotl 2y ago
I think it’s pretty clear that the strawman is, at least, the actual loudest opinion. Maybe it’s not the majority but if you look at the backlash against DEI you very clearly see that those claiming DEI is to blame for the current ills of society are arguing from that straw position. The goal of something like DEI is to round the edges of the arbitrary merit such as systemic disenfranchisement. A just meritocracy would evaluate people on _relevant_ merit to the judgement at hand. Such a society does not exist.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  I think DEI is largely a debate about what constitutes merit. E.g. Is it about hard work or performance. If performance, what metric. This is most obvious in school admissions. People argue if admissions should be blinded to race, or calibrated to take into account effort. However, Nobody is arguing that merit doesn't exist, as in a straight F student that can't read should be admitted to Stanford.
  - roxolotl 2y ago
    Absolutely agree that merit is real and exists. I think DEI/AA though is actually trying to make society more meritocratic along the lines of performance. It is a thumb on the scale. But not of what is considered instead of who is considered.
  - theGnuMe 2y ago
    There have been studies of admitting lower performing (academic wise) students to law school and they found no difference in outcomes. The LSAT is slated to go but who knows now. https://www.alanet.org/legal-management/2023/february/columns/the-lsat-and-its-lack-of-relevance-to-lawyering https://www.alanet.org/legal-management/2023/february/column...

tonyedgecombe 2y ago

> Nobody is making this straw man. Actually I think many are, including a lot of politicians.

roxolotl 2y ago

I think it’s pretty clear that the strawman is, at least, the actual loudest opinion. Maybe it’s not the majority but if you look at the backlash against DEI you very clearly see that those claiming DEI is to blame for the current ills of society are arguing from that straw position. The goal of something like DEI is to round the edges of the arbitrary merit such as systemic disenfranchisement. A just meritocracy would evaluate people on _relevant_ merit to the judgement at hand. Such a society does not exist.

s1artibartfast 2y ago
I think DEI is largely a debate about what constitutes merit. E.g. Is it about hard work or performance. If performance, what metric. This is most obvious in school admissions. People argue if admissions should be blinded to race, or calibrated to take into account effort. However, Nobody is arguing that merit doesn't exist, as in a straight F student that can't read should be admitted to Stanford.
- roxolotl 2y ago
  Absolutely agree that merit is real and exists. I think DEI/AA though is actually trying to make society more meritocratic along the lines of performance. It is a thumb on the scale. But not of what is considered instead of who is considered.
- theGnuMe 2y ago
  There have been studies of admitting lower performing (academic wise) students to law school and they found no difference in outcomes. The LSAT is slated to go but who knows now. https://www.alanet.org/legal-management/2023/february/columns/the-lsat-and-its-lack-of-relevance-to-lawyering https://www.alanet.org/legal-management/2023/february/column...