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World's largest wildlife crossing reaches critical milestone. Now what?
- kibwen 2y agoRoads are such an apocalyptic blight on the landscape that I'm all for burying as many of them as possible. 200 feet down, 200 billion feet to go.
- panick21_ 2y agoOr you know, crazy idea, just have less roads, use something more efficient less impactful to nature. Can't imagine what that could be.
- bluGill 2y agoIt doesn't matter, there are downsides. In an ideal train world you still end up with railroad tracks everywhere that interstates exist with the same wildlife downsides. Running trains at ground level is an order of magnitude cheaper to build than building it elevated so wildlife can go under. Running underground is another order of magnitude more expensive. The expense directly relates to how much we can build at any one time - we can build a lot more if we choose run on the ground. In the ideal train world you still end up with roads everywhere because "last mile" freight needs to get places and trains don't work well for it (think your kitchen trash). Passenger trains always rely on the fact that people can walk a short distance to the train, but freight cannot walk. Passenger trains also cannot be blocked by freight loading/unloading which means you need a separate road system. Passenger trains need to run frequent, you might not go anywhere in the next half hour, but someone on your block will and if the trains are not frequent (every 5 minutes or less) cars are a great quality of life improvement: unlike cars passenger trains cannot mix with freight and be good in areas where things are not busy (A bus can mix with freight well in less busy areas, but they still need to be frequent and that is rarely the case again pushing people to cars and thus against what "you can't imagine"). This in turn means we have more places wildlife is blocked. Airplanes are the only exception, but they don't cover all the needs and so even if we forced everyone to fly for longer trips (at significant climate costs) we still need all the roads in the middle of nowhere for the people (farmers) who live in those ares.
- jajko 2y agoHate to burst anyone's bubble but trains in its current form aren't solution to mass transit. They help, sure, under certain circumstances, but are very costly to run and in peak you need huge amount of them. 1 disruption and everything stops, you can't just take an exit and go through villages. Case point Switzerland, the train country of this world. Efficiency, cleanness, reach, small country. Yet its prohibitively expensive here and highways are chock full of commuters just like anywhere else. For weekend trip ie to mountains they (+ post buses where trains don't go) are very restrictive which is understandable, but car becomes a must anyway.
- ornornor 2y ago> expensive Not so much. As a tourist yes, no question. If you’re a resident, there is a card that costs 160/year (180 the first year) and give you half price on all trains. Also works with any local public transit system (municipal buses, etc) across the country. Train is quite affordable like that. For example St Gallen to Zurich is 90 minutes by train and costs 16.- with 1/2 fare card. You can even get a super saver (valid on this train only) for 21.20 or 11.20 1/2 fare. That’s for this Monday. Swiss salaries are some of the highest in the world. The overwhelming majority of trains run on time, don’t strike, and are clean. It’s cheaper than driving (gas and maintenance) + parking by a long margin. You can go ski by train there. Haven’t owned a car in 5 years living there.
- jajko 2y agoSure if you build and restrict your life around no car, then its doable. Very restricted. Also that part about cost being cheaper ain't true - I have that half tariff. For going somewhere, anywhere, its the same cost (+ saving tons of time). Taking family of 4... you do the math. There is reason why there are so many cars everywhere. Families with kids usually have 2. Basically everybody has at least 1. If what you said is true people wouldn't be buying and using them constantly.
- ornornor 2y ago
- rad_gruchalski 2y agoMe neither. A bus? A train? A bicycle? What do you mean, don’t leave the room for interpretation.
- lacrosse_tannin 2y agoThe roads and the borders
- teekert 2y agoOne wonders about why they didn’t choose a tunnel, leaving that ultra special soul fully intact…
- WillAdams 2y agoThe U.S. needs similar crossings for all the regions separated by the Interstate system, and somewhere near the center of each region so created, a large wilderness preserve which has roads removed: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42104894 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42104894
- AyyEye 2y agoWhile I agree with the sentiment --that couple's methods leave something to be desired. The article makes it sound like they took a motor boat into a wilderness preserve? Motor vehicles are explicitly not allowed in those areas. Also excluding dirt roads is a pretty bad criteria. A lot of GIS marked 'dirt roads' are natural animal trails or washes that have been around for hundreds/thousands of years.
- mikestew 2y agoThe National Parks Service allows it: While motorboats are permitted to operate in the marine environment, their presence can influence the wilderness setting. https://www.nps.gov/ever/wilderness.htm https://www.nps.gov/ever/wilderness.htm
- s1artibartfast 2y agoThat seems specific to the Everglades wilderness.
- kjkjadksj 2y agoUS doesn’t even have this for humans to cross at regular intervals on all freeways.
- WillAdams 2y agoIt has them wherever the local community decides that they are important enough to implement.
- aaron695 2y ago[dead]
- LinuxBender 2y agoPut all human infrastructure under ground so that one is left with a beautiful mostly untouched planet. Addresses some aspects of global climate change no further need for HVAC. Reduces power load on the grid. Animals can have the surface of their planet back.
- loloquwowndueo 2y agoZero animals live underground, this will totally work.
- eitally 2y agoMaybe the PP just finished watching Silo....
- paulcole 2y agoBut he’s a computer programmer so obviously his expertise extends into all other areas.
- williamdclt 2y agoI don’t think this was a serious comment
- loloquwowndueo 2y agoIndeed, being a know-it-all is not exclusive to programmers :)
- LinuxBender 2y agoOnce one knows it all they obtain the title Principal Armchair Commander or PAC. One should strive to be a PAC, man.
- potato3732842 2y agoFor all their ills lawyers basically never engage in that "clearly my experience transfers" type crap. Getting them to say anything about stuff they're not experts in is like pulling teeth.
- zoklet-enjoyer 2y agoWhy is this taking so long to complete?
- throwup238 2y agoBecause they’re trying to do it the right way. The rain we’ve experienced the last few years has been the biggest problem. The soil they’re piling on top of the crossing erodes away almost immediately without plant roots to stabilize it and those plants take a while to establish.
- zoklet-enjoyer 2y agoOh, yeah I see it mentions that in the article. I didn't read the article before commenting because I had read another article about this project recently and didn't think there would be anymore information. I was wrong.
- jvdvegt 2y agoIs it the biggest wildlife crossing? This one [1] is 50x150 meters. Granted, it's in flat land so it's not covered with such a thick layer of soil. [1] https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/natuurbrug-zanderij-crailoo https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/natuurbrug-zanderij-crai...
- hooo 2y agoYea, I find it hard to believe that is the largest.
- gamblor956 2y agoThe difference is in what's being measured. According to the Dutch Wikipedia article, the Zanderij Crailoo bridge is a multi-purpose bridge that includes a hiking path, bike path, and horse trail, in addition to a wildlife crossing. The Agoura Hills is just a wildlife crossing. So it would be most accurate to say that the Agoura Hills crossing is the single biggest dedicated wildlife crossing.
- OtherShrezzing 2y agoThis is a great initiative which I fully support. But why does it take 4-6 years (including several months of complete road closure) to build what is, in the grand scheme of things, a quite small bridge?
- icegreentea2 2y agoSo the article says that Agoura Road (which is not the highway) will be closed, but the project FAQ still says that it won't be? And the government pre-notices don't seem to mention anticipating closing the road either... https://101wildlifecrossing.org/crossing-faq/ https://101wildlifecrossing.org/crossing-faq/ https://www.agourahillscity.org/Home/Components/News/News/3936/524?backlist=%2F%3Fid%3D2837 https://www.agourahillscity.org/Home/Components/News/News/39...
- BurningFrog 2y agoThis is lightning speed for California construction...
- kjkjadksj 2y agoThey can go hyperspeed if they want. See freeway building after northridge earthquake or when they replaced an entire bridge over the 405 in one night.
- kjkjadksj 2y agoBecause they aren’t building a cheap old bridge animals will probably learn to use. They are effectively regrading the mountainside and landscaping over this bridge to try and blend it in with the landscape. Imo its a waste of money. Crabs learn to use the dead simple ugly bridges. Crabs. A coyote or a mountain lion or deer (what you’d see using this thing in CA) all already use human style bridges to cross highways.
- themadturk 2y agoNot sure that it's a complete waste of money, but it's pretty obvious that animals will use any means of getting across that's convenient.
- jkuria 2y agoWhy is there no wildlife? I expected this to be about the Maasai Mara/Serengeti wildebeest crossing :)
- recursive 2y agoDoes this type of wildlife crossing actually work?
- dgacmu 2y agoYes. 80-97% reduction in vehicle-animal collisions, per: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0006320716300350?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00063... > If wildlife fencing and crossing structures are designed based on the requirements of the target species, and if they are implemented and maintained correctly, the measures can reduce large mammal–vehicle collisions by 80–97% (Clevenger et al., 2001, Gagnon et al., 2015, Sawyer et al., 2012).
- kjkjadksj 2y agoAny type works. This one is stupid elaborate. Animals are smart. They don’t need a graded landscape to learn crossings. See what they use for crab migrations. Looks nothing like what is native in a crab environment and yet this is fine for the simple crab. Meanwhile coyote already is used to walking on our sidewalks in california.
- jessekv 2y agoI had to look up the crab migration bridges. https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2021/11/18/red-crab-migration-overpass-christmas-island-australia-ctw-vpx.cnn https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2021/11/18/red-crab-migrati...
- pizlonator 2y agoYes! Let's build this stuff instead of homes.
- dgacmu 2y agoDon't give in to zero sum thinking. https://www.opb.org/article/2022/08/31/animal-crossings-over-and-under-highways-can-save-big-dollars-not-just-lives-says-new-study/ https://www.opb.org/article/2022/08/31/animal-crossings-over... > Sugiarto found a favorable cost-benefit analysis. The study estimated each crossing structure could save society between $235,000 and $443,000 annually through collision reductions. The savings varied based on structure size, design and location.
- crazygringo 2y agoThe two have nothing to do with each other. We've got plenty of money to do both. The issues with homebuilding are entirely to do with regulation, zoning, etc. Developers will build homes if they're allowed to. Banks will give them the loans (homes don't require government money). The problem is them not being allowed to. Because you're not allowed to build multi-family homes in a neighborhood, you're not allowed to build tall apartment buildings, approvals take forever, etc.
- jamra 2y agoAn animal crossing built right next to a school. I wonder if the coyotes that will cross will be a threat to the children.
- dubcanada 2y agoIs this a troll comment I don’t understand? Do you see coyotes running around hunting children often?
- tylerflick 2y agoOnly during open season.
- bigwheeler 2y agoOnly when there are no roadrunners to be found.
- lightedman 2y agoCalifornia child attack via Coyote 2022. June 2024 coyote tries to enter a California home and attack a cat. It happens.
- ornornor 2y agoYeah okay. How many dogs bit children in the same amount of time? How many people did cars kill in that same amount of time? How many fingers pinched by doors?
- jamra 2y agoOpening an animal crossing next to a school in an area where there are many coyotes is a lot different than fingers pinched by doors. But if you’re making the argument that this animal crossing is so important than the occasional child being killed by animals is as trivial as fingers being pinched by doors, I know all I need to know about you.
- jamra 2y ago
- thimkerbell 2y agoClickbait title.
- metalman 2y agovastly simpler to build the road up on pylons for a few miles. 1, build new road on pylons beside the old road for a few miles. 2 ,switch traffic to new road on pylons. 3 , rip up old road 4 , build some fences ,plant some grass and shrubs 5 ' repeat in each eco zone and local water shed and other areas where there are lots of critters....too chicken to cross the road