3 ms·

The two are incompatible. You're either hiring based on race, gender, sexual identity etc. or based on merit. Firing people who got hired because of racist and

The two are incompatible. You're either hiring based on race, gender, sexual identity etc. or based on merit. Firing people who got hired because of racist and sexist DEI practices increases merit.

rbanffy 2y ago
I don’t think you fully understand what DEI means and what organisations do to improve in that regard. For instance, masking name (sometimes a good proxy for race) and gender in candidate assessments is a DEI measure and increases representation of marginalised groups. Did you know telescope time for minorities improved when reviewers couldn’t see the name of the scientist in the proposal? That’s DEI. DEI means to work in removing biases that limit access of minorities to opportunities. When it works, being a white male doesn’t get confused with merit, as it usually is. Lots of people think this is discrimination, because their group isn’t being hired as much as before when, in fact, it’s just the removal of discrimination against others.
- TylerLives 2y ago
  That's maybe 1% of DEI. The other 99% is stuff like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33165844 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33165844 and making characters in video games ugly
  - filoeleven 2y ago
    > and making characters in video games ugly. In what way?
    - TylerLives 2y ago
      This is a good video on the topic https://youtu.be/F7-18qCOfJo https://youtu.be/F7-18qCOfJo You can skip the first 13:40.
      - rbanffy 2y ago
        OMG! How can we live with all this fat acceptance? And lesbians! This is soooo offensive I might cry. Seriously...
        TylerLives 2y ago
        I've never understood "fat acceptance". Is your view that having more fat people in the media will help other fat people fell better about themselves? I have sympathy for them and understand that for some people it can be very difficult to lose weight, but I don't see how "fat acceptance" is going to help them. Especially given that on some level they must know how others really feel about it. It's interesting to see how these types of initiatives always produce the opposite of what they claim to stand for.
        rbanffy 2y ago
        > I don't see how "fat acceptance" is going to help them Did it occur to you to ask them what they want? > Especially given that on some level they must know how others really feel about it. It's not healthy to assign your self-value based on other people's opinions. > It's interesting to see how these types of initiatives always produce the opposite of what they claim to stand for. [Citation Needed] On a more serious note, mental health is a very serious issue with women who feel they need to be thin to be fiscally healthy or attractive to others. Girls should never go through this.
yokoprime 2y ago
This is the reasoning of a young child. How do you even define merit? Nobody, except maybe high level athletes are hired on what can be considered merit alone. To do so, you would have to remove people from the process altogether. Those who hire new talent have to evaluate more than pure results. Maybe they have to chose between two people, one is a rockstar with the results to show for it, but not a team player and puts themself first. the other is solid and dependable, better at mentoring, but with more modest results. Its not a given who will be hired in this case.
- TylerLives 2y ago
  Sure, there was never a perfect meritocracy. I believe we should move towards a more meritocratic society and hiring based on gender and race goes against that.

The two are incompatible. You're either hiring based on race, gender, sexual identity etc. or based on merit. Firing people who got hired because of racist and sexist DEI practices increases merit.

rbanffy 2y ago

I don’t think you fully understand what DEI means and what organisations do to improve in that regard. For instance, masking name (sometimes a good proxy for race) and gender in candidate assessments is a DEI measure and increases representation of marginalised groups. Did you know telescope time for minorities improved when reviewers couldn’t see the name of the scientist in the proposal? That’s DEI. DEI means to work in removing biases that limit access of minorities to opportunities. When it works, being a white male doesn’t get confused with merit, as it usually is. Lots of people think this is discrimination, because their group isn’t being hired as much as before when, in fact, it’s just the removal of discrimination against others.

TylerLives 2y ago
That's maybe 1% of DEI. The other 99% is stuff like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33165844 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33165844 and making characters in video games ugly
- filoeleven 2y ago
  > and making characters in video games ugly. In what way?
  - TylerLives 2y ago
    This is a good video on the topic https://youtu.be/F7-18qCOfJo https://youtu.be/F7-18qCOfJo You can skip the first 13:40.
    - rbanffy 2y ago
      OMG! How can we live with all this fat acceptance? And lesbians! This is soooo offensive I might cry. Seriously...
      - TylerLives 2y ago
        I've never understood "fat acceptance". Is your view that having more fat people in the media will help other fat people fell better about themselves? I have sympathy for them and understand that for some people it can be very difficult to lose weight, but I don't see how "fat acceptance" is going to help them. Especially given that on some level they must know how others really feel about it. It's interesting to see how these types of initiatives always produce the opposite of what they claim to stand for.
        rbanffy 2y ago
        > I don't see how "fat acceptance" is going to help them Did it occur to you to ask them what they want? > Especially given that on some level they must know how others really feel about it. It's not healthy to assign your self-value based on other people's opinions. > It's interesting to see how these types of initiatives always produce the opposite of what they claim to stand for. [Citation Needed] On a more serious note, mental health is a very serious issue with women who feel they need to be thin to be fiscally healthy or attractive to others. Girls should never go through this.

yokoprime 2y ago

This is the reasoning of a young child. How do you even define merit? Nobody, except maybe high level athletes are hired on what can be considered merit alone. To do so, you would have to remove people from the process altogether. Those who hire new talent have to evaluate more than pure results. Maybe they have to chose between two people, one is a rockstar with the results to show for it, but not a team player and puts themself first. the other is solid and dependable, better at mentoring, but with more modest results. Its not a given who will be hired in this case.

TylerLives 2y ago
Sure, there was never a perfect meritocracy. I believe we should move towards a more meritocratic society and hiring based on gender and race goes against that.