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>This should be a un-ignorable reminder of the value of due process I agree with you. Now explain how can we scale the due process to deport everyone that ent
by ReptileMan 2y ago
>This should be a un-ignorable reminder of the value of due process
I agree with you.
Now explain how can we scale the due process to deport everyone that entered here illegally in a reasonable timeframe. 15-30 million hearings will take a century to be resolved.
The system is not designed for such massive load in mind.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- BLKNSLVR 2y agoIf it's so important to get done quickly, hire more people to do it. Move resources to solve the most pressing problems first. Otherwise let law/justice take as long as law/justice takes.
- ReptileMan 2y ago>Otherwise let law/justice take as long as law/justice takes. Once again I agree with you. Let's deport them first and make remote immigration courts in every US embassy. This way they have remedy for false positives, and let law/justice take as long as law/justice takes
- BLKNSLVR 2y agoBut how do you know who to deport without due process? Papers please? (you answered above: Papers Please it is.)
- ReptileMan 2y agoWhat is wrong with papers please?
- jrs235 2y ago"Sir we need your papers to resolve your claim you were wrongly deported. What? I'm sorry we deported you without your papers. That's your problem. If you can't get your papers your SOL." Nevermind they are deporting folks to third party PRISONS.
- SauciestGNU 2y agoIt's an affront to the values America was founded on, and an insult to the Allies who died fighting the Nazis to stop behavior like this
- ouilala 2y agoNothing wrong with it. In fact I should be able to see the papers of the ICE agent, to unlock his phone, to strip search him and detain him if necessary until I find he isn't a terrorist; and if found to be a threat, neutralize him by whatever means necessary. Why not, whats good for the goose is good for the gander. I don't believe in special rights for certain groups. If he can search me, I can search him too.
- joquarky 2y agoIf you don't know the connotations of the most basic idioms of history, perhaps you should move on to another thread.
- anigbrowl 2y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Your_papers,_please https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Your_papers,_please
- lawn 2y agoSending them to a prison you don't return from isn't a deportation.
- Terr_ 2y agoWith most of them being sent to a totally unrelated country, to boot.
- ethbr1 2y agoIt sure would have helped if we'd hired those additional immigration judges that the bipartisan bill would have funded... before Trump shot it down to deny Biden a political point. And being forcibly removed from the US is exactly the sort of power that due process is intended to limit, by Constitutional design for all people in the US (not just citizens).
- foogazi 2y agoThis is not rational or intellectually honest - not the discourse I expect on hn
- ModernMech 2y agoI regret to inform you, you have committed a crime and are being deported. :( What's that you say? You have not committed a crime? Unfortunately, our records indicate that you have. Bummer! :\ You're an American Citizen? Why, that changes things! Hard to tell lookin at ya ;). But unfortunately we don't have the time or resources to make a positive determination about that now, so you'll have to wait in Venezuela for as long as it takes while the law/justice sorts this out. Yes, I understand you claim you've done nothing wrong, but you've got to understand, people voted to get rid of "people like you", and that's the president's mandate. So in the end it may turn out that you're innocent, but for the next 4 years please enjoy this Venezuelan gulag. It's your patriotic duty.
- 9dev 2y agoAnd how long will it take to process the illegal Immigration of all the Europeans that entered the American continent 300 years ago..?
- ReptileMan 2y agoWe were conquerors. Vae Victis.
- foogazi 2y ago> We were conquerors Stolen valor
- pjc50 2y ago> 15-30 million hearings What level of false positives are you willing to tolerate - US nationals wrongly deported? How many fatalities (including suicides) are you willing to tolerate in this process? (fairly easy to imagine hypothetical situation: lawful US national gun owner with Hispanic name is shopped to immigration by his neighbours. ICE come to his house in the middle of the night to deprive him of his rights. Is he (a) legally (b) morally entitled to open fire on them? If not, what do all the 2nd amendment tyranny resistors mean? If so, isn't this going to be a huge mess?)
- ReptileMan 2y agoHe shows his id and they say sorry to disturb you sir.
- BLKNSLVR 2y agoThe land of the free!
- pjc50 2y agoThe US has mandatory national ID for everyone now? (edit: at the moment the only possible document would be a US passport, because a driving license doesn't prove nationality, so the 50% of Americans who don't have passports are SOL)
- ttyprintk 2y agoAbout 50% of extant drivers licenses are not REAL-ID compliant.
- AngryData 2y agoSo a simple fake ID is all you would need to thwart immigration or cops? What happens if you don't have your ID on you? What if you legitimately lost your ID and are still waiting for a replacement? What paperwork do you have that confirms you are a citizen right now? Especially since birthright citizenship is now being thrown out the window.
- 2y ago
- drcongo 2y agoUsername checks out.
- catlover76 2y agoOne of the fundamental tenets of the US legal system (and, at one time, its culture) is that rights like due process are more important than helping facilitate the government's will at scale. The one place this has been debased and eroded has been NatSec, and that's part of why the government wants to use that justification for its immigration enforcement.
- maxerickson 2y agoJust scale the system as needed. If the idea is that we are deporting people that are here illegally, it shouldn't be controversial to require some degree of evidence and a brief examination of that evidence by someone not immediately connected to gathering it, and some kind of oversight structure.
- timeon 2y agoAre you suggesting that this needs to be industrialized?
- _DeadFred_ 2y agoConvict employers of workers not allowed to work legally and people will self deport. Oh but that would convict the wrong sort of criminal. We don't go after the criminals that exploit an underclass, that hire illegals so they can avoid paying into social security, that hire illegals so they can pay under required wages, that hire illegals so that they can exploit them all kinds of ways. Instead you propose we deny due process to gay barbers and send them to overseas concentration camps as step one (ignoring the administration can't even fill the first batch of a few hundred out of tens of thousands of claimed 'gangbangers' with actual criminals).
- foogazi 2y ago> Now explain how can we scale the due process to deport everyone that entered here illegally in a reasonable timeframe. No - you explain why you need to do this within any timeframe
- rurp 2y agoA good place to start would be to not abruptly fire hundreds of deportation judges and staff. It's absurd to claim that this administration is actually trying to solve a problem, their actions clearly show that they are not. These deportation circus events are about terrorizing people and make some alt-right scumbags on the internet happy.
- UncleMeat 2y agoToo bad. "We don't have the resources to give that many people their full legal rights" should not be followed by "so we will deny them their rights." The government could massively expand the number of immigration courts or otherwise massively increase resourcing that goes into processing these cases. Otherwise they can get fucked. Legal rights make the job of law enforcement more difficult. That's a good thing.