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If I didn't live here I wouldn't visit the US either even before all this recent crap. High crime rates, high poverty rates, poor education, expensive, and the

If I didn't live here I wouldn't visit the US either even before all this recent crap. High crime rates, high poverty rates, poor education, expensive, and the 5th highest incarceration rate in the world on par with Turkmenistan and Brazil. 1.5% of the US population is either in prison or on probation and a short step away from prison.

deleted 2y ago
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rebanevapustus 2y ago
As somebody who is Brazilian, I gotta tell you. Comparing the US with Brazil, especially with respect to some violence-adjacent statistic, is absurd in a way I don't think anybody from anywhere aside from perhaps South Africa could grasp big is your privilege.
- SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
  Yeah, take it from me, NYC and Boston are far more relaxed and friendly than Cape Town for walking or driving around. But I find the airport border security in CPT Airport much more pleasant. The worst that happens is that they sometimes go through your stuff thoroughly, hoping to ding you some money for "importing" e.g. that second bottle of booze. In all of these cities, there is crime and violence. Less so in NYC and Boston. In all of them, there are safer places and times, and less safe areas. If you know what they are. You can't say "USA crime and poverty rates are terrible, therefore Manhattan will be very dangerous" - it just doesn't work that way.
  - bitsandboots 2y ago
    Agree with the point but boy, NYC is one of my least favorite cities so it wouldn't be my example of nice places to be. Boston's nice though!
- rbanffy 2y ago
  Both Brazil and the US are huge and extremely diverse countries. On both you can see extremes of luxury and poverty. On both you will see violence and police corruption. In the case of the US, it's more heartbreaking because it's a rich country, and you shouldn't see people living on the streets of a place like San Francisco. There are too many things that "shouldn't" in the US that just are and that is what makes me avoid visiting as often as I once did. The current descent into a quasi-fascist state isn't enticing either. Brazil, on the other hand, is a poor country with rich pockets (chances are we both grew up in one), and poverty is kind of expected and hard to avoid. At least there (I don't live in Brazil anymore) we see a government dedicated to reducing economic inequality. I hope they succeed. In the meantime, I guess I'll learn some basic Mandarin and spend more time in China. It's an interesting country that's now opening up to the world and with a lot of new things to be discovered by those who grew up elsewhere.
  - buzzert 2y ago
    > The current descent into a quasi-fascist state isn't enticing either. > In the meantime, I guess I'll learn some basic Mandarin and spend more time in China. Uhhh....
  - SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
    > and you shouldn't see people living on the streets of a place like San Francisco. Taking a straight line on the map in San Francisco, we saw people in conditions as grim as I have ever seen, including South African slums. As you say, it's in some ways worse because the USA should not - there must be the ability to improve that, but not the inclination. The dire pockets are smaller in the USA, sure. But there were also extremes of luxury and poverty.
  - creer 2y ago
    > In the case of the US, it's more heartbreaking because it's a rich country, and you shouldn't see people living on the streets of a place like San Francisco. It is certainly not for lack of money all around that many/most live on the street. Money is the one thing that sloshes all over the place. Mental health care and friendly administrations of all kinds, on the other hand, not so much.
- AngryData 2y ago
  The US has a 40% higher incarceration rate than Brazil.
  - simonsarris 2y ago
    That may be part of why the US so much safer than Brazil, eg, 4x fewer homicides.
    - ViewTrick1002 2y ago
      Now compare both incarceration rate and homicides with Canada and Europe.
    - AngryData 2y ago
      Then how come the UK with 4x lower incarceration rate than the US also has 5x less homicides?
  - HDThoreaun 2y ago
    so what?
- marcuschong 2y ago
  The comparison was only regarding incarceration rate, it seems to me.
CoastalCoder 2y ago
I wouldn't think most of those factors matter when deciding to visit. E.g., if I had friends in the US, or I wanted to see Yosemite National Park, why would the education system matter?
- atoav 2y ago
  Because the people you will enevitably run into will have gone through it and paired with stress, poverty and guns this could ruin your day?
- drivingmenuts 2y ago
  I wouldn't want to roll the dice on being seized at the border by ICE for arbitrary and capricious reasons, detained and/or disappeared, to maybe get sent back to my country of origin. Because that is a thing that can happen now. If I didn't already live here, I wouldn't come here for any reason.
facile3232 2y ago
[flagged]
- xxs 2y ago
  Usually the home country or other touristic destinations. I'd consider that US has been the country with the highest crime... and very obvious police presence compared to any other place visited (I've traveled fair amount)
  - facile3232 2y ago
    I would count the police presence as a far better reason to not visit this country than the crime. By a wide margin.
- setopt 2y ago
  For example, compared to nearly all of Europe and Asia? See e.g. the table in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country,_region,_or_dependent_territory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention... There are some exceptions like Russia and Iraq, of course.
  - facile3232 2y ago
    Ah, I suppose you're correct. I can't say this is anywhere near the worst part about living here so I was surprised to see it make the list.
    - setopt 2y ago
      I’ve been to the US several times and am not afraid to travel there for tourism or work trips. But the homicide rate being ~10x higher there compared to my home country is definitely one factor stopping me from considering moving there with my family, despite good job opportunities. (As an European, the other big blocker is work-life balance.)

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

rebanevapustus 2y ago

As somebody who is Brazilian, I gotta tell you. Comparing the US with Brazil, especially with respect to some violence-adjacent statistic, is absurd in a way I don't think anybody from anywhere aside from perhaps South Africa could grasp big is your privilege.

SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
Yeah, take it from me, NYC and Boston are far more relaxed and friendly than Cape Town for walking or driving around. But I find the airport border security in CPT Airport much more pleasant. The worst that happens is that they sometimes go through your stuff thoroughly, hoping to ding you some money for "importing" e.g. that second bottle of booze. In all of these cities, there is crime and violence. Less so in NYC and Boston. In all of them, there are safer places and times, and less safe areas. If you know what they are. You can't say "USA crime and poverty rates are terrible, therefore Manhattan will be very dangerous" - it just doesn't work that way.
- bitsandboots 2y ago
  Agree with the point but boy, NYC is one of my least favorite cities so it wouldn't be my example of nice places to be. Boston's nice though!
rbanffy 2y ago
Both Brazil and the US are huge and extremely diverse countries. On both you can see extremes of luxury and poverty. On both you will see violence and police corruption. In the case of the US, it's more heartbreaking because it's a rich country, and you shouldn't see people living on the streets of a place like San Francisco. There are too many things that "shouldn't" in the US that just are and that is what makes me avoid visiting as often as I once did. The current descent into a quasi-fascist state isn't enticing either. Brazil, on the other hand, is a poor country with rich pockets (chances are we both grew up in one), and poverty is kind of expected and hard to avoid. At least there (I don't live in Brazil anymore) we see a government dedicated to reducing economic inequality. I hope they succeed. In the meantime, I guess I'll learn some basic Mandarin and spend more time in China. It's an interesting country that's now opening up to the world and with a lot of new things to be discovered by those who grew up elsewhere.
- buzzert 2y ago
  > The current descent into a quasi-fascist state isn't enticing either. > In the meantime, I guess I'll learn some basic Mandarin and spend more time in China. Uhhh....
- SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
  > and you shouldn't see people living on the streets of a place like San Francisco. Taking a straight line on the map in San Francisco, we saw people in conditions as grim as I have ever seen, including South African slums. As you say, it's in some ways worse because the USA should not - there must be the ability to improve that, but not the inclination. The dire pockets are smaller in the USA, sure. But there were also extremes of luxury and poverty.
- creer 2y ago
  > In the case of the US, it's more heartbreaking because it's a rich country, and you shouldn't see people living on the streets of a place like San Francisco. It is certainly not for lack of money all around that many/most live on the street. Money is the one thing that sloshes all over the place. Mental health care and friendly administrations of all kinds, on the other hand, not so much.
AngryData 2y ago
The US has a 40% higher incarceration rate than Brazil.
- simonsarris 2y ago
  That may be part of why the US so much safer than Brazil, eg, 4x fewer homicides.
  - ViewTrick1002 2y ago
    Now compare both incarceration rate and homicides with Canada and Europe.
  - AngryData 2y ago
    Then how come the UK with 4x lower incarceration rate than the US also has 5x less homicides?
- HDThoreaun 2y ago
  so what?
marcuschong 2y ago
The comparison was only regarding incarceration rate, it seems to me.

CoastalCoder 2y ago

I wouldn't think most of those factors matter when deciding to visit. E.g., if I had friends in the US, or I wanted to see Yosemite National Park, why would the education system matter?

atoav 2y ago
Because the people you will enevitably run into will have gone through it and paired with stress, poverty and guns this could ruin your day?
drivingmenuts 2y ago
I wouldn't want to roll the dice on being seized at the border by ICE for arbitrary and capricious reasons, detained and/or disappeared, to maybe get sent back to my country of origin. Because that is a thing that can happen now. If I didn't already live here, I wouldn't come here for any reason.

facile3232 2y ago

[flagged]

xxs 2y ago
Usually the home country or other touristic destinations. I'd consider that US has been the country with the highest crime... and very obvious police presence compared to any other place visited (I've traveled fair amount)
- facile3232 2y ago
  I would count the police presence as a far better reason to not visit this country than the crime. By a wide margin.
setopt 2y ago
For example, compared to nearly all of Europe and Asia? See e.g. the table in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country,_region,_or_dependent_territory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention... There are some exceptions like Russia and Iraq, of course.
- facile3232 2y ago
  Ah, I suppose you're correct. I can't say this is anywhere near the worst part about living here so I was surprised to see it make the list.
  - setopt 2y ago
    I’ve been to the US several times and am not afraid to travel there for tourism or work trips. But the homicide rate being ~10x higher there compared to my home country is definitely one factor stopping me from considering moving there with my family, despite good job opportunities. (As an European, the other big blocker is work-life balance.)