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I don't think the "a button in X is 40% heavier than an SPA" is a fair comparison; including a framework will add weight, but these frameworks are not intended

I don't think the "a button in X is 40% heavier than an SPA" is a fair comparison; including a framework will add weight, but these frameworks are not intended for single components. Compare apples to apples, then we can make a fair comparison. That said, how does Nue compare to htmx and other frameworks leveraging the modern web standards?

tipiirai 2y ago
Is there a full-blown SPA demo made with htmx?
t-writescode 2y ago
- htmx = 14k as min.gz - solidjs = 7kb as min.gz htmx for "easy" html, solid for reactivity. Don't know how much more Nue provides; but, there you go for numbers.
MartijnHols 2y ago
There is no such things as a true apples to apples comparison for libraries such as this. They all cherry pick something and ignore a ton of things such as: - accessibility - amount of libraries with plug-and-play solutions to common problems - security - scalability - rendering performance - maintainability - browser support - browser extension interference - hundreds of other niche edge-cases that someone will eventually run into but are non-obvious until it's widely used React is really well-thought out and well made by hundreds of professional contributors that have worked on it for years. The premise that hobbyists can make a better overall solution in less than 8 months is strange. At best they can make a smaller solution, but it will have to sacrifice in other areas.
- maccard 2y ago
  React and the react ecosystem fail at many of the criteria you’ve listed. You might argue “that’s not reacts fault” but when I look at a website that takes 15+ seconds to load its content on a gigabit connection , I’m never surprised when it’s react. Lots of sites have massive issues with rendering performance, scalability and maintainability even with react. What react does do is give you a clean separation of concerns across team boundaries and allow for reusable components . But the cost you pay for that is a boat load of overhead, complexity, maintainability concerns, and react specific edge cases
  - MartijnHols 2y ago
    A 15+ second load on a gigabit connection is impossible to have anything to do with the React library, as React is only kilobytes big and has no impact on the host.
    - maccard 2y ago
      > You might argue “that’s not reacts fault” but when I look at a website that takes 15+ seconds to load its content on a gigabit connection , I’m never surprised when it’s react. > A 15+ second load on a gigabit connection is impossible to have anything to do with the React library, as React is only kilobytes big and has no impact on the host. Perfectly proving my point. It's not react-the-framework's fault, yet those sites are always react sites.
      - gcau 2y ago
        This is the "everyone who drinks water dies, therefore drinking water is deadly" argument. I'd also guess lesser known frameworks have a higher proportion of better developers - i.e people taking the time to research and try new technologies probably are more competent. You're also forgetting about the trillions of wordpress (and similar) websites that exist.
        maccard 2y ago
        It’s really not. It’s much more of a “everyone who chooses this flavor of soda dies”. Maybe it’s the soda, maybe it’s the people it attracts. > I'd also guess lesser known frameworks have a higher proportion of better developers - i.e people taking the time to research and try new technologies probably are more competent. And this is the “you’re holding it wrong” argument. Facebook and Airbnb are the poster children for react (one of them wrote react). They are both perfect examples of absolutely disastrously monsters of websites plagued with issues related to all of the problems react supposedly solved.
    - pier25 2y ago
      So what stack are you using with React?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

tipiirai 2y ago

Is there a full-blown SPA demo made with htmx?

t-writescode 2y ago

- htmx = 14k as min.gz - solidjs = 7kb as min.gz htmx for "easy" html, solid for reactivity. Don't know how much more Nue provides; but, there you go for numbers.

MartijnHols 2y ago

There is no such things as a true apples to apples comparison for libraries such as this. They all cherry pick something and ignore a ton of things such as: - accessibility - amount of libraries with plug-and-play solutions to common problems - security - scalability - rendering performance - maintainability - browser support - browser extension interference - hundreds of other niche edge-cases that someone will eventually run into but are non-obvious until it's widely used React is really well-thought out and well made by hundreds of professional contributors that have worked on it for years. The premise that hobbyists can make a better overall solution in less than 8 months is strange. At best they can make a smaller solution, but it will have to sacrifice in other areas.

maccard 2y ago
React and the react ecosystem fail at many of the criteria you’ve listed. You might argue “that’s not reacts fault” but when I look at a website that takes 15+ seconds to load its content on a gigabit connection , I’m never surprised when it’s react. Lots of sites have massive issues with rendering performance, scalability and maintainability even with react. What react does do is give you a clean separation of concerns across team boundaries and allow for reusable components . But the cost you pay for that is a boat load of overhead, complexity, maintainability concerns, and react specific edge cases
- MartijnHols 2y ago
  A 15+ second load on a gigabit connection is impossible to have anything to do with the React library, as React is only kilobytes big and has no impact on the host.
  - maccard 2y ago
    > You might argue “that’s not reacts fault” but when I look at a website that takes 15+ seconds to load its content on a gigabit connection , I’m never surprised when it’s react. > A 15+ second load on a gigabit connection is impossible to have anything to do with the React library, as React is only kilobytes big and has no impact on the host. Perfectly proving my point. It's not react-the-framework's fault, yet those sites are always react sites.
    - gcau 2y ago
      This is the "everyone who drinks water dies, therefore drinking water is deadly" argument. I'd also guess lesser known frameworks have a higher proportion of better developers - i.e people taking the time to research and try new technologies probably are more competent. You're also forgetting about the trillions of wordpress (and similar) websites that exist.
      - maccard 2y ago
        It’s really not. It’s much more of a “everyone who chooses this flavor of soda dies”. Maybe it’s the soda, maybe it’s the people it attracts. > I'd also guess lesser known frameworks have a higher proportion of better developers - i.e people taking the time to research and try new technologies probably are more competent. And this is the “you’re holding it wrong” argument. Facebook and Airbnb are the poster children for react (one of them wrote react). They are both perfect examples of absolutely disastrously monsters of websites plagued with issues related to all of the problems react supposedly solved.
  - pier25 2y ago
    So what stack are you using with React?
deleted 2y ago
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