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- Russian Federation is technically a democracy. - Belarus, same thing. - Ukraine, same thing. They're all in Europe, too. - Israel, where the Netanyahu's t

- Russian Federation is technically a democracy. - Belarus, same thing. - Ukraine, same thing. They're all in Europe, too. - Israel, where the Netanyahu's trial is commonly seen (by both sides!) as a way to prevent Netanyahu from serving as the PM. - Arguably, US with the Trump conviction. These are the ones I'm personally aware of, it's more than likely there are better examples. (In a "no true scotsman" way of thinking, it's easy to debunk any such cases by saying they're bad examples of a democracy. Then again, it's the same argument with any political system — proponents of communism will say that communism was never implemented properly, for example.)

mmooss 2y ago
> technically I don't know what that means, but Russia is not a democracy - the people don't have self-determination to choose their government. Nor is Belarus. Anyway, what are these examples of? When in a real democracy has a court corrupted the democratic process? Not in Ukraine either - their laws just push off elections during wartime IIRC. And was that done by the courts? Have they jailed the opposition? > Arguably, US with the Trump conviction Trump was elected after that!
- animuchan 2y ago
  > Russia is not a democracy How do you determine this though? There are candidates. Majority of the people vote. The one voted for the most wins. Sure, _some_ candidates are in jail (or dead) — but that's strictly because they were convicted in a fair trial, they're criminals, you see. I argue that there are similarities between two regimes blacklisting political candidates from the democratic process. > When in a real democracy If we cherry-pick the ones we like to be "real", and the ones we dislike to be "fake", then by definition the "real" ones are the good ones. > Not in Ukraine either E.g. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/ukraine-suspends-11-political-parties-with-links-to-russia https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/ukraine-suspen... Sure, not a court per se — it was apparently the country's national security and defense council that took the decision to ban the parties from any political activity. But I agree, it's whatever. > Trump was elected after that! Yep, despite well-documented efforts to block him from running. The outcome is I think a win for democracy. That democrats think of this as a defeat is amusing to me. (I'm an foreigner and don't live or vote in the US, so no horse in the race either way.)
  - mmooss 2y ago
    >> Russia is not a democracy > How do you determine this though? By not wasting time on intentional time-wasting arguments. > That democrats think of this as a defeat is amusing to me. Not most Democrats that I've seen - they wanted the law followed (for future reference: Democratic party members are Democrats, those who favor democracy are democrats).
    - animuchan 2y ago
      Thanks! I totally forgot about case-sensitivity of Democrats, and sure, I meant the big D.

mmooss 2y ago

> technically I don't know what that means, but Russia is not a democracy - the people don't have self-determination to choose their government. Nor is Belarus. Anyway, what are these examples of? When in a real democracy has a court corrupted the democratic process? Not in Ukraine either - their laws just push off elections during wartime IIRC. And was that done by the courts? Have they jailed the opposition? > Arguably, US with the Trump conviction Trump was elected after that!

animuchan 2y ago
> Russia is not a democracy How do you determine this though? There are candidates. Majority of the people vote. The one voted for the most wins. Sure, _some_ candidates are in jail (or dead) — but that's strictly because they were convicted in a fair trial, they're criminals, you see. I argue that there are similarities between two regimes blacklisting political candidates from the democratic process. > When in a real democracy If we cherry-pick the ones we like to be "real", and the ones we dislike to be "fake", then by definition the "real" ones are the good ones. > Not in Ukraine either E.g. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/ukraine-suspends-11-political-parties-with-links-to-russia https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/ukraine-suspen... Sure, not a court per se — it was apparently the country's national security and defense council that took the decision to ban the parties from any political activity. But I agree, it's whatever. > Trump was elected after that! Yep, despite well-documented efforts to block him from running. The outcome is I think a win for democracy. That democrats think of this as a defeat is amusing to me. (I'm an foreigner and don't live or vote in the US, so no horse in the race either way.)
- mmooss 2y ago
  >> Russia is not a democracy > How do you determine this though? By not wasting time on intentional time-wasting arguments. > That democrats think of this as a defeat is amusing to me. Not most Democrats that I've seen - they wanted the law followed (for future reference: Democratic party members are Democrats, those who favor democracy are democrats).
  - animuchan 2y ago
    Thanks! I totally forgot about case-sensitivity of Democrats, and sure, I meant the big D.