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Terms like “left” and “centre” lose all meaning internationally. It’s clear to everyone in the ripe that the democrats are on the right leaning side of “centre
by chgs 2y ago
Terms like “left” and “centre” lose all meaning internationally.
It’s clear to everyone in the ripe that the democrats are on the right leaning side of “centre right”, but half of America thinks they are “far left”. A party that can’t even implement a national health service.
- mytailorisrich 2y agoI am not talking "internationally". Within the UK and European context, The Guardian is left-wing and has many very left-wing columnists. Do read the public comments on articles, and you'll see this is the readership, too (at least the "vocal" ones, perhaps). Sure overall it is not as left-wing as, say, Le Monde Diplomatique in France (someone mentioned it in another comment) but still. Overall, Wikipedia is quite accurate: "The paper's readership is generally on the mainstream left of British political opinion, and the term "Guardian reader" is used to imply a stereotype of a person with modern progressive, left-wing or "politically correct" views." [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guardian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guardian
- oneeyedpigeon 2y agoI live in the UK and this is simply not true. The Guardian is left-wing, for sure, in the sense that it is left of center. But it is not generally regarded as "very left-wing", nor are many of its columnists. Public comments on newspaper sites are a very poor judge of the newspaper's political position. Sometimes, even Daily Mail comment threads skew left!
- mytailorisrich 2y agoI am not sure what is your disagreement, then? It is left-wing, you agree. They do have very left-wing columnists, too, quite a few of them, most famous being Owen Jones.
- FabHK 2y agoNobody said "very" left-wing. Nobody seems to disagree that it is left-wing.
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y agoFrom the GP: > The Guardian is left-wing and has many very left-wing columnists. Sure there's some subtle distinction between the paper itself being one thing but still having "many very left-wing columnists", but not a lot.
- FabHK 2y agoAh, missed that. Sorry.
- mytailorisrich 2y agoIs this what it has come to? Trying to twist every single word as much as possible against their author in the least honest way possible? I stand with what you quoted. This was a honest and rather matter-of-fact statement... But I obviously deserver to be shot for it by the "progressists" it has somehow managed to offend.
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y agoThe author of what I quoted seems to have reacted to it differently than you are doing. Or perhaps even very differently ...
- mytailorisrich 2y agoYes, clearly I would not have survived the Red Guards.
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y agoCould you please name one of these "very left-wing columnists" ? Or maybe two, since you claim it has "many" of them? Owen Jones is perhaps as close as they come to "very left-wing", and while he is a bona fide socialist, he's certainly not a revolutionary.
- mdemare 2y ago> that the democrats are on the right leaning side of “centre right” This is repeated frequently, but, no, just no. Name one position by the Democrats that is to the right of typical center to center-right parties such as CDU/CSU, La République En Marche, PP, CDA, ÖVP. Immigration, abortion, environmental regulations?
- kubb 2y agoHealthcare, welfare, labor rights, public services, hawkish foreign policy.
- jampekka 2y agoPublic healthcare, tuition-free higher education, gun regulation, unions, social security, taxation, business regulation, criminal penalties. On some/many social issues (minorities, abortion, drug policy) Democrats are relatively liberal even by European standards.
- chgs 2y agoInterestingly until very recently even the republicans are way to the left of European countries on immigration.
- pyrale 2y agoAll of these parties are equivalent to the dems. They're rightwing, not center. There's been a trend recently to call them center-right to make the distinction with far right parties which were anecdotal 50 years ago, but make no mistake, when a party is called center-right, it's a rightwing party, not a center party that could align either with the left or the right depending on the topic.
- mytailorisrich 2y agoI can't comment on the others but "La Republique en Marche" in France (Macron's party) is not rightwing. It goes from centre right to the centre left. From a British perspective it pretty much covers the right of Labour, the Lib Dems, and the left of the Tories. Macron himself is very centrist to centre left. He started in government in Hollande's cabinet, which was a Socialist Party (= Labour) government. Many top figures in Macron's party now are former Socialist Party. The rightwing party in France now is effectively the RN (although it is still referred to as "far-right" for historical and tactical reasons).
- gadders 2y agoCertainly on culture war issues they are far left.