5 ms·

The wrongdoing here isn't in devaluing somebody's work, it is about enriching oneself by openly repurposing their IP without compensation and dodging any kind o

by rchaud 2y ago

The wrongdoing here isn't in devaluing somebody's work, it is about enriching oneself by openly repurposing their IP without compensation and dodging any kind of repercussions whatsoever. It was bad when Chinese companies did it, OpenAI using legal sleight of hand to indemnify their actions isn't any less galling.

moffkalast 2y ago
I doubt anyone is enriching themselves with AI memes, at best it slightly devalues their brand by reducing scarcity.
- freetinker 2y ago
  Utter bullshit. Or more politely - wrong take. OpenAI embeds itself further in public consciousness, arguably attracting more users therefore profiting. Enabling mass-production of Ghibli style without permission or monetary compensation is theft.
  - pearjuice 2y ago
    Theft of what? There was no market for "memes in ghibli style commissioned by the original studio" which would probably cost hundreds if not thousands if hand-drawn. Nobody was going to pay for that. When it became freely available and instantly reproducible, that's the new market.
    - pjc50 2y ago
      It's not truly free though, it's a loss leader for the near-trillion dollar AI industry. If we're asking where the stolen value ends up, I think you can answer "in the NVIDIA share price".
    - Yizahi 2y ago
      Theft of copyrighted data (movies/art), which OAI used for developing their LLM.
      - mavhc 2y ago
        Oh, you mean copyright infringement, not theft
        Yizahi 2y ago
        Unless you live in some anarcho-capitalist society, it is theft, in very simple terms. And I wonder, just where are all those highly successful libertarian societies? The ones who don't need to enforce copyright and where every member of society is creating his own creative art content, movies, songs, games etc. Oh, they have all failed miserably to scammers? Poor people, how I pity them (not).
    - rchaud 2y ago
      I see the neo-Silicon Valley spirit of "regulatory arbitrage as a service" is unwavering. It's promotion for OpenAI's product, without any of the appropriate licensing. 3D printing companies don't provide Lego schematics to sell their products. There's also the small matter of their ex-employee turned copyright whistleblower, who ended up dead: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd0el3r2nlko https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd0el3r2nlko
    - melagonster 2y ago
      >Nobody was going to pay for that. Japanese artists exist.
    - freetinker 2y ago
      Excellent points both. I need to ponder this…
    - WhyOhWhyQ 2y ago
      It doesn't seem hard to imagine 2-5 years from now when "memes in Ghibli style" turns into "pay us 25 cents and we'll send you a 30 minute cartoon in Ghibli style".
  - TimPC 2y ago
    Styles are notoriously hard to copy. It's not like Ghibli style being copied is anything new. For example, Studio Ponoc where former Ghibli employees did the copying. As long as they aren't literally generating copyrighted works styles can't be owned. Would the world be better off if Picasso's heirs owned Cubism and any artist wanting to produce works in that style had to buy a license?
    - mitthrowaway2 2y ago
      Studio Ponoc had Miyazaki's blessing. I doubt the same can be said for OpenAI. OpenAI doing this without even asking might not be illegal, but it comes across like an act of incredible disrespect for the very creators that these memes are masquerading as an homage to. “When we opened the new studio, Studio Ponoc, I went to report this to Mr. Miyazaki,” he went on, “and he gave his blessing and said, ‘You really need to have the conviction to go create a new film studio and the conviction to show children worthwhile films. And every film you make, you’ll have to realize that has to be a film that is worthy to show to children’.[1] [1]: https://www.themarysue.com/studio-ponoc-interview/ https://www.themarysue.com/studio-ponoc-interview/
- Tade0 2y ago
  OpenAI definitely is, as apparently image generation is, for the time being, not available in the free tier, so the only way to keep up with the fad is to upgrade.
  - Kye 2y ago
    It's there on my free account with the new generator.
    - Jensson 2y ago
      People pay to get more images generated, you can make money even if you have a free version.
- awkward 2y ago
  OpenAI had a publicity cycle around how tuned their image generator is for this particular style in the same week that google released a major rev for Gemini. That kind of social media dominance against a major competitor is incredibly valuable.
TimPC 2y ago
I personally think the line should be mostly output based. You should be able to train on any copyrighted work by having a single reader license (e.x. purchasing a book or e-book) for that work and no other special licenses. You shouldn't be able to download pirated works for training but you shouldn't need special licenses to train instead of read. But if your model produces outputs that too closely match their inputs and a company can show it that is a copyright violation and you can be sued for it.

by rchaud 2y ago

moffkalast 2y ago

I doubt anyone is enriching themselves with AI memes, at best it slightly devalues their brand by reducing scarcity.

freetinker 2y ago
Utter bullshit. Or more politely - wrong take. OpenAI embeds itself further in public consciousness, arguably attracting more users therefore profiting. Enabling mass-production of Ghibli style without permission or monetary compensation is theft.
- pearjuice 2y ago
  Theft of what? There was no market for "memes in ghibli style commissioned by the original studio" which would probably cost hundreds if not thousands if hand-drawn. Nobody was going to pay for that. When it became freely available and instantly reproducible, that's the new market.
  - pjc50 2y ago
    It's not truly free though, it's a loss leader for the near-trillion dollar AI industry. If we're asking where the stolen value ends up, I think you can answer "in the NVIDIA share price".
  - Yizahi 2y ago
    Theft of copyrighted data (movies/art), which OAI used for developing their LLM.
    - mavhc 2y ago
      Oh, you mean copyright infringement, not theft
      - Yizahi 2y ago
        Unless you live in some anarcho-capitalist society, it is theft, in very simple terms. And I wonder, just where are all those highly successful libertarian societies? The ones who don't need to enforce copyright and where every member of society is creating his own creative art content, movies, songs, games etc. Oh, they have all failed miserably to scammers? Poor people, how I pity them (not).
  - rchaud 2y ago
    I see the neo-Silicon Valley spirit of "regulatory arbitrage as a service" is unwavering. It's promotion for OpenAI's product, without any of the appropriate licensing. 3D printing companies don't provide Lego schematics to sell their products. There's also the small matter of their ex-employee turned copyright whistleblower, who ended up dead: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd0el3r2nlko https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd0el3r2nlko
  - melagonster 2y ago
    >Nobody was going to pay for that. Japanese artists exist.
  - freetinker 2y ago
    Excellent points both. I need to ponder this…
  - WhyOhWhyQ 2y ago
    It doesn't seem hard to imagine 2-5 years from now when "memes in Ghibli style" turns into "pay us 25 cents and we'll send you a 30 minute cartoon in Ghibli style".
- TimPC 2y ago
  Styles are notoriously hard to copy. It's not like Ghibli style being copied is anything new. For example, Studio Ponoc where former Ghibli employees did the copying. As long as they aren't literally generating copyrighted works styles can't be owned. Would the world be better off if Picasso's heirs owned Cubism and any artist wanting to produce works in that style had to buy a license?
  - mitthrowaway2 2y ago
    Studio Ponoc had Miyazaki's blessing. I doubt the same can be said for OpenAI. OpenAI doing this without even asking might not be illegal, but it comes across like an act of incredible disrespect for the very creators that these memes are masquerading as an homage to. “When we opened the new studio, Studio Ponoc, I went to report this to Mr. Miyazaki,” he went on, “and he gave his blessing and said, ‘You really need to have the conviction to go create a new film studio and the conviction to show children worthwhile films. And every film you make, you’ll have to realize that has to be a film that is worthy to show to children’.[1] [1]: https://www.themarysue.com/studio-ponoc-interview/ https://www.themarysue.com/studio-ponoc-interview/
Tade0 2y ago
OpenAI definitely is, as apparently image generation is, for the time being, not available in the free tier, so the only way to keep up with the fad is to upgrade.
- Kye 2y ago
  It's there on my free account with the new generator.
  - Jensson 2y ago
    People pay to get more images generated, you can make money even if you have a free version.
awkward 2y ago
OpenAI had a publicity cycle around how tuned their image generator is for this particular style in the same week that google released a major rev for Gemini. That kind of social media dominance against a major competitor is incredibly valuable.

TimPC 2y ago

I personally think the line should be mostly output based. You should be able to train on any copyrighted work by having a single reader license (e.x. purchasing a book or e-book) for that work and no other special licenses. You shouldn't be able to download pirated works for training but you shouldn't need special licenses to train instead of read. But if your model produces outputs that too closely match their inputs and a company can show it that is a copyright violation and you can be sued for it.