3 ms·

I'm 100% onboard with this. My thought was how are they going to make Serialization work, but looks like they thought of that. I was trying to think of an edge

I'm 100% onboard with this. My thought was how are they going to make Serialization work, but looks like they thought of that. I was trying to think of an edge case with JsonB or JAXB that would be affected by this... but generally those frameworks have told you for quite awhile not to do stupid stuff like: ``` @Getter public class HelloMessage { @JsonbProperty private final String helloMessage; } ``` I can't think of any frameworks offhand that do this.

hyperpape 2y ago
Brian Goetz, chief architect of Java, once posted a "what they think I do" vs. "what I actually" do tweet. If I remember correctly, 25% - 50% of the "what I actually do" category was something like "get angry at serialization." So I think it's safe to say "what about serialization?" is always going to be asked.
- exabrial 2y ago
  Serialization is unfortunately important though... want to suspend a program and resume it later, or transfer it over a network, etc. The real world is kinda a let down.
  - esprehn 2y ago
    That's a hydration problem though, it doesn't require magically serializing the running state like java Serializable wants to. It just needs a way to produce minimal inputs to then reconstitute the state again on the other side.
- dstine 2y ago
  In this 2014 talk, Brian shows a slide in which he characterizes a visible fraction of his job as “regretting serialization” (somewhat tongue-in-cheek). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y5Pv4yN0b0&t=930s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y5Pv4yN0b0&t=930s Link is to the start of a sequence of three slides, the third of which is the slide in question. For a more recent update on serialization, watch this talk “Serialization: A New Hope”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIbA2ymCWDs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIbA2ymCWDs
  - int_19h 2y ago
    It's not just Java, either. The original .NET serialization system is very obviously inspired by Java, and has many of the same issues - to the point where it's effectively deprecated these days.

hyperpape 2y ago

Brian Goetz, chief architect of Java, once posted a "what they think I do" vs. "what I actually" do tweet. If I remember correctly, 25% - 50% of the "what I actually do" category was something like "get angry at serialization." So I think it's safe to say "what about serialization?" is always going to be asked.

exabrial 2y ago
Serialization is unfortunately important though... want to suspend a program and resume it later, or transfer it over a network, etc. The real world is kinda a let down.
- esprehn 2y ago
  That's a hydration problem though, it doesn't require magically serializing the running state like java Serializable wants to. It just needs a way to produce minimal inputs to then reconstitute the state again on the other side.
dstine 2y ago
In this 2014 talk, Brian shows a slide in which he characterizes a visible fraction of his job as “regretting serialization” (somewhat tongue-in-cheek). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y5Pv4yN0b0&t=930s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y5Pv4yN0b0&t=930s Link is to the start of a sequence of three slides, the third of which is the slide in question. For a more recent update on serialization, watch this talk “Serialization: A New Hope”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIbA2ymCWDs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIbA2ymCWDs
- int_19h 2y ago
  It's not just Java, either. The original .NET serialization system is very obviously inspired by Java, and has many of the same issues - to the point where it's effectively deprecated these days.