4 ms·
That's why we have nowadays Republics, with either written constitutions or fundamental legal texts like Habeas Corpus, not just pure democracies à la antique A
by aredox 2y ago
That's why we have nowadays Republics, with either written constitutions or fundamental legal texts like Habeas Corpus, not just pure democracies à la antique Athens.
The way out of your conundrum is to admit there is no "the People"; there is a collection of diverging, often incoherent trends, and no voting system is perfect (no voting system is even logical, as proven by Condorcet and Arrow[0])
[0] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/arrows-impossibility-theorem.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/arrows-impossibility-th...
- crazygringo 2y agoI'm using modern terminology. There's no relevant distinction here: https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/democracy-and-republic https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/democracy-and-republ... The fundamental democratic principle is the same. And we measure the will of the people in elections, without having to worry about Arrow... it's procedural.
- aredox 2y agoArrow is not at all "procedural", the French know it well: the 1995 presidential election ended with a Chirac vs Le Pen (the patriarch) duel, even though Lionel Jospin was the favorite and would have beaten both if he had faced them off... A clear example of non-transitivity in elections.
- crazygringo 2y agoThat's my point, sorry if it wasn't clear. Non-transitivity is resolved procedurally. We can theorize about Arrow all we want; in the meantime we can write rules that actually do produce electoral results.
- aredox 2y agoMy point is that it wasn't resolved: Jospin was the favorite, but the French were forced to choose between two candidates the majority of them loathed. The rules were a failure. (2002 election, not 1995 - my bad) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_French_presidential_election#Results https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_French_presidential_elect...
- aredox 2y agoSorry, 2002 election.
- tpm 2y agoEven Athens had ostracism, barring ostracised people from running for office.