3 ms·

I dunno man, "citation needed" about a lot of your screed. On the whole the freaking out about "trans" stuff is mostly a red herring or strawman used for strat

I dunno man, "citation needed" about a lot of your screed. On the whole the freaking out about "trans" stuff is mostly a red herring or strawman used for strategic propagandistic purposes more than it is reflecting any real world problematic. Making outlandish claims about how liberals are trying to do X, Y, and Z to their children's education or sports forces liberals onto the defensive forcing them to defend hormone therapy for 12 year olds or whatever when the actual number of real world incidents of this is vanishingly small. I don't personally carry any kind of radical gender identity theory, but I care about the rights of minorities and it's none of my business what other people do and I see no problem with the public and corporate sphere accomodate pronoun usages or even bathroom accomodations, it's unlikely to cause harms and it doesn't hurt me in the slightest. It's also somewhat ... interesting ... to bring up defense of female prisoner's rights and their conditions as some kind of demarcation point. Is the socially conservative right concerned about humane prisons now? Because that would be great. But unlikely.

recursive 2y ago
> Is the socially conservative right concerned about humane prisons now? > Because that would be great. But unlikely. I don't know where I'm at on this, but this is ad hominem. You can't discredit an argument based on who's making it. If you're opposed to humane prisons, just say so. But that's not what I'm getting.
emptysongglass 2y ago
Why would you blanket care about the rights of minorities? I care about the rights of lots of beings, but not minorities for minorities sake. The person isn't making outlandish claims. You can search the web and validate all of them. Liberals, as in new leftists responsible for the majority of purity spiral shaming we've seen on the internet for oh the last two decades now, are in fact responsible for their fair share of extremist ideologies that some folks have now taken as self-evident. This is despite the fact that many of us who once considered ourselves part of their ranks are completely sick of its absolutist language. I've been pushed into what I guess must be a kind of center because it seems we can no longer have any discourse of any nuance around issues like trans people without being labeled a fascist or maniac neo-Nazi right-winger. To take an example of this, I have a very close friend who is trans but even she is sick of how faddish transness has become. She insists she's a trans-medicalist, something I only recently learned about, which seems to set the bar appropriately high to being what global society (not the ultra-left view that dominates places like HN and Reddit) deems a woman. I actually do believe in biological gender and even think the fact biological women are out there bleeding and suffering once a month in ways men can't even begin to understand does in fact separate them from other people stating they are now a woman. Or literally growing a human being inside them is both a privilege and a horror that marks someone so indelibly we call this person a woman. Yet I can no longer reasonably even engage most of you in a nuanced discourse about this without likely getting downvoted to oblivion. There was a time once when you could, but now it seems that time has passed.
- seethedeaduu 2y ago
  Try repeating the paragraph before the last to your "friend". Even transmedicalists tend to not be fond of this line of thinking. > but now it seems that time has passed. I am glad. I have yet to see any form of actually nuanced discussion about this that involves a cis person so far. Anyway, none of this is "center".
  - emptysongglass 2y ago
    And you have illustrated my point perfectly, even down to using air quotes to describe a relationship of my own. Did you intend to go further and perhaps call me something truly awful? As I am not "center" according to you. I am able to maintain friendships with people I disagree with, even on very fundamental things. You capture exactly the drift that has occurred in discourse, where neither side is able to talk to each other with any level-headedness, but remains fixed in escalation, certain the other side intends their extinction.

recursive 2y ago

> Is the socially conservative right concerned about humane prisons now? > Because that would be great. But unlikely. I don't know where I'm at on this, but this is ad hominem. You can't discredit an argument based on who's making it. If you're opposed to humane prisons, just say so. But that's not what I'm getting.

emptysongglass 2y ago

Why would you blanket care about the rights of minorities? I care about the rights of lots of beings, but not minorities for minorities sake. The person isn't making outlandish claims. You can search the web and validate all of them. Liberals, as in new leftists responsible for the majority of purity spiral shaming we've seen on the internet for oh the last two decades now, are in fact responsible for their fair share of extremist ideologies that some folks have now taken as self-evident. This is despite the fact that many of us who once considered ourselves part of their ranks are completely sick of its absolutist language. I've been pushed into what I guess must be a kind of center because it seems we can no longer have any discourse of any nuance around issues like trans people without being labeled a fascist or maniac neo-Nazi right-winger. To take an example of this, I have a very close friend who is trans but even she is sick of how faddish transness has become. She insists she's a trans-medicalist, something I only recently learned about, which seems to set the bar appropriately high to being what global society (not the ultra-left view that dominates places like HN and Reddit) deems a woman. I actually do believe in biological gender and even think the fact biological women are out there bleeding and suffering once a month in ways men can't even begin to understand does in fact separate them from other people stating they are now a woman. Or literally growing a human being inside them is both a privilege and a horror that marks someone so indelibly we call this person a woman. Yet I can no longer reasonably even engage most of you in a nuanced discourse about this without likely getting downvoted to oblivion. There was a time once when you could, but now it seems that time has passed.

seethedeaduu 2y ago
Try repeating the paragraph before the last to your "friend". Even transmedicalists tend to not be fond of this line of thinking. > but now it seems that time has passed. I am glad. I have yet to see any form of actually nuanced discussion about this that involves a cis person so far. Anyway, none of this is "center".
- emptysongglass 2y ago
  And you have illustrated my point perfectly, even down to using air quotes to describe a relationship of my own. Did you intend to go further and perhaps call me something truly awful? As I am not "center" according to you. I am able to maintain friendships with people I disagree with, even on very fundamental things. You capture exactly the drift that has occurred in discourse, where neither side is able to talk to each other with any level-headedness, but remains fixed in escalation, certain the other side intends their extinction.