4 ms·

> “Until the person truly wants to quit, they’re not going to. Forcing people into treatment, it’s against our will and unjust.” I agree, but the policy shoul

> “Until the person truly wants to quit, they’re not going to. Forcing people into treatment, it’s against our will and unjust.” I agree, but the policy should be, confiscation and destruction of drugs and no charges. Allowing dealers to take advantage of and profit off of a vulnerable is against the public will and is unjust.

magicalhippo 2y ago
To me that's an argument for the gov't providing controlled doses that must be taken at the location. This undercuts the illegal drug economy, reduce theft and other related crime, as well as reducing risk of ODs as they'll get proper doses of good quality. That said, I'm not sure if ease of access will exacerbate the problem. Which would be an argument against.
- nxobject 2y ago
  Canada has/had? a similar pilot program, but for alcohol use where you get a drink every hour: it might be a good comparison re: health outcomes alone. Let me find a link. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/26/homeless-shelter-ottawa-gives-wine-to-alcoholics https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/26/homeless-she...
- sightbroke 2y ago
  Why would the illegal drug economy ever let politicians that would implement this get into positions of power to do so?
  - timewizard 2y ago
    I think the legal drug economy has a hand in it as well.
    - sightbroke 2y ago
      Wouldn't they presumably be the ones selling crack, meth, heroin , etc to the government?
  - LorenPechtel 2y ago
    Yeah, we've seen that with alcohol. The bootleggers want dry counties, it's good for business. Bad for everyone else, though. (Yeah, even when quality isn't an issue. You see more DUI in dry counties.)
- howard941 2y ago
  This describes the methadone clinic model I remember from back in the 70s in NYC
- LorenPechtel 2y ago
  I doubt you truly need the taken-at-location part other than for political acceptability. Sure, it's safer, but taken at location imposes a considerable burden upon the users. As for ease of access--the experimental data is limited but doesn't appear to show any big effects. The drug war imposes huge costs, though. My personal thoughts on this: 1) The date-rape drugs probably should be illegal or highly restricted. 2) The addictive drugs should be legal for adults. Experimental data will be needed to figure out if we need to make them prescription only--if a prescription requirement is imposed addiction should be considered a valid reason for a script and it should not involve the hoops that a controlled script currently entails. 3) The stuff that has little addiction potential should be legal for adults, period. 4) No advertising beyond simple price lists is permitted anywhere other than where you know the person has already indicated an interest in the substance. (Thus I would permit a cigarette company to freely tout their products behind a click-through--lots of adult websites do the sort of thing I'm thinking of.) Products are siloed--if you're looking at X you have not expressed an interest in Y. One business can sell multiple drugs but must silo them from each other. Ads can never chase you--once you have left the website consent no longer exists. 5) #4 also applies to tobacco and alcohol. The gas station can sell smokes but all the tobacco-related ads have to go. Many grocery stores already silo the alcohol and I haven't seen tobacco not siloed in a long, long time. (Smoke shops with the cartons laid out are siloed--it's just at the front door.)
- ein0p 2y ago
  This creates a powerful incentive for the government to become a drug dealer and create more addicts to avail itself of more taxpayer money. See the homeless-industrial complex in SF, Seattle, and elsewhere. Billions disappearing into a black hole as the problem gets worse and worse.
- TrnsltLife 2y ago
  Time to take your soma!
zombiwoof 2y ago
Why aren’t they making the laws harsher on dealers? No dealers no drugs
- tick_tock_tick 2y ago
  Drug dealing basically works like a MLM the edges of the tree are easy to find and arrest but they are mostly easily replaceable young kids that putting them away does little to the overall flow.
- anon7000 2y ago
  The decriminalization law Oregon passed was harsher on dealers. Only small amounts in your possession were decriminalized.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  The laws are plenty harsh for dealers. There's always new cannon fodder available to serve as first-line ablative customer service for the big suppliers.

magicalhippo 2y ago

To me that's an argument for the gov't providing controlled doses that must be taken at the location. This undercuts the illegal drug economy, reduce theft and other related crime, as well as reducing risk of ODs as they'll get proper doses of good quality. That said, I'm not sure if ease of access will exacerbate the problem. Which would be an argument against.

nxobject 2y ago
Canada has/had? a similar pilot program, but for alcohol use where you get a drink every hour: it might be a good comparison re: health outcomes alone. Let me find a link. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/26/homeless-shelter-ottawa-gives-wine-to-alcoholics https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/26/homeless-she...
sightbroke 2y ago
Why would the illegal drug economy ever let politicians that would implement this get into positions of power to do so?
- timewizard 2y ago
  I think the legal drug economy has a hand in it as well.
  - sightbroke 2y ago
    Wouldn't they presumably be the ones selling crack, meth, heroin , etc to the government?
- LorenPechtel 2y ago
  Yeah, we've seen that with alcohol. The bootleggers want dry counties, it's good for business. Bad for everyone else, though. (Yeah, even when quality isn't an issue. You see more DUI in dry counties.)
howard941 2y ago
This describes the methadone clinic model I remember from back in the 70s in NYC
LorenPechtel 2y ago
I doubt you truly need the taken-at-location part other than for political acceptability. Sure, it's safer, but taken at location imposes a considerable burden upon the users. As for ease of access--the experimental data is limited but doesn't appear to show any big effects. The drug war imposes huge costs, though. My personal thoughts on this: 1) The date-rape drugs probably should be illegal or highly restricted. 2) The addictive drugs should be legal for adults. Experimental data will be needed to figure out if we need to make them prescription only--if a prescription requirement is imposed addiction should be considered a valid reason for a script and it should not involve the hoops that a controlled script currently entails. 3) The stuff that has little addiction potential should be legal for adults, period. 4) No advertising beyond simple price lists is permitted anywhere other than where you know the person has already indicated an interest in the substance. (Thus I would permit a cigarette company to freely tout their products behind a click-through--lots of adult websites do the sort of thing I'm thinking of.) Products are siloed--if you're looking at X you have not expressed an interest in Y. One business can sell multiple drugs but must silo them from each other. Ads can never chase you--once you have left the website consent no longer exists. 5) #4 also applies to tobacco and alcohol. The gas station can sell smokes but all the tobacco-related ads have to go. Many grocery stores already silo the alcohol and I haven't seen tobacco not siloed in a long, long time. (Smoke shops with the cartons laid out are siloed--it's just at the front door.)
ein0p 2y ago
This creates a powerful incentive for the government to become a drug dealer and create more addicts to avail itself of more taxpayer money. See the homeless-industrial complex in SF, Seattle, and elsewhere. Billions disappearing into a black hole as the problem gets worse and worse.
TrnsltLife 2y ago
Time to take your soma!

zombiwoof 2y ago

Why aren’t they making the laws harsher on dealers? No dealers no drugs

tick_tock_tick 2y ago
Drug dealing basically works like a MLM the edges of the tree are easy to find and arrest but they are mostly easily replaceable young kids that putting them away does little to the overall flow.
anon7000 2y ago
The decriminalization law Oregon passed was harsher on dealers. Only small amounts in your possession were decriminalized.
ceejayoz 2y ago
The laws are plenty harsh for dealers. There's always new cannon fodder available to serve as first-line ablative customer service for the big suppliers.