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It is a shame. The US justice system is not even pretending to provide justice. If the president can bomb and kill random people 8000 miles away without any tri

It is a shame. The US justice system is not even pretending to provide justice. If the president can bomb and kill random people 8000 miles away without any trial (or even charging them with a crime, if any), surely he can wiretap innocent Americans at home because of their color/creed/origin. The constitution can go to hell. The Bushes and Obamas and Clintons will take turns to continue the mass-murders abroad and mass-violations of privacy at home (or even illegal abduction and torture of American citizens as long as they have a Muslimy name). Meanwhile there will be some musical chair shows to give the public the "choice" between one mass-murderer and another. http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/30/liberty-and-justice-for-non-muslims/ http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/30/liberty-and-j... Liberty and Justice for Non-Muslims By ANDREW ROSENTHAL Since the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, genuine concerns about national security as well as politicking and fear have led to a shift in the balance between civil liberties and law enforcement. That much is indisputable, and widely discussed. Yet it’s rarely acknowledged that the attacks have also led to what’s essentially a separate justice system for Muslims. In this system, the principle of due process is twisted and selectively applied, if it is applied at all.

maratd 14y ago
> Liberty and Justice for Non-Muslims Is there really any evidence this is happening only to Muslims? My impression was that everyone was being treated this way. Not that this makes things any better ...
- einhverfr 14y ago
  No, but there are some troubling patterns. Read Brandenburg v. Ohio and then read Holder v. Humanitarian Law Project. While it is protected to advocate terrorism and even genocide against African Americans to fellow KKK members under the First Amendment, it is not protected suggest to Hamas that they would be better off abandoning terrorism. Of course a different way to read this is that the law takes a harsher look at terrorism against whites than against blacks. Or one might see the court as eroding first amendment guarantees. It is all in how you look at it.
- accountswu 14y ago
  There are several examples in the article I quoted. I can google up tons of others. Various Christian terrorists are let go without any qualms while several Muslims have been rotting in jails without any trial or charges, or even worse, after the courts determined that there is nothing against them. Hutaree Milita's (Christian terrorists) were all released even though they had plans to kill government / law enforcement officials. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutaree#Michigan_Militia_and_the_Hutaree http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutaree#Michigan_Militia_and_th... The United States Attorney's Office stated that the Hutaree allegedly planned "to kill an unidentified member of local law enforcement and then attack the law enforcement officers who gather in Michigan for the funeral".[14][15] The press release further stated that nine had been indicted by a federal grand jury in Detroit on charges of seditious conspiracy, attempted use of weapons of mass destruction, teaching the use of explosive materials, and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence. The indictment said that the Hutaree planned to attack law enforcement vehicles during the funeral procession for the officer or officers they planned to kill, using explosively formed penetrator improvised explosive devices (which under federal law are considered "weapons of mass destruction").[15] Compare that to the various cases in which Muslim Americans were convicted and sentenced for tens of years because of their thoughts or their writings or for uploading a video on youtube. None of that is exaggerated, really a kid was arrested for uploading a video and was facing decades in prison. Tarek Mehanna - no violence, no crime committed except thought crimes. Sentenced for 17 years. http://www.salon.com/2012/04/13/the_real_criminals_in_the_tarek_mehanna_case/ http://www.salon.com/2012/04/13/the_real_criminals_in_the_ta... A pre-teen (or teen?) Canadian kid was abducted from Afghanistan and he was put in Guantanamo. If he had pleaded not guilty he would have had got a much longer sentence so he pleaded guilty. He was not on US soil when he allegedly committed that crime (if it was a crime). http://www.google.com/search?q=omar+khadr http://www.google.com/search?q=omar+khadr His chief interrogator was Joshua Claus, who later pleaded guilty to abusing detainees to extract confessions following the in-custody death of wrongly accused Dilawar that same year.[81] Jubair Ahmad, sentenced for uploading a youtube video and exchanging Youtube messages with a relative of a terrorist organization. The uploading of video is "material support" in the eyes of the system when the guy is a Muslim. http://tribune.com.pk/story/364387/us-court-hands-12-year-sentence-to-pakistan-born-american-for-supporting-let/ http://tribune.com.pk/story/364387/us-court-hands-12-year-se... When Hutaree militia was being given material support (military gear, cameras, guns) which appears to be more than youtube video and involved actual weapons of mass destruction, they were all released.
- accountswu 14y ago
  A couple of more examples, Jewish and Christian and other European white American students have protested at speeches of Israeli murderers (or speeches of folks that they don't agree with) and they have never been convicted for that, a group of 11 Muslim students was convicted for interrupting Israeli Ambassador Oren at UC Irvine last year, i.e. for doing what countless protesters have done before without conviction. This article is written by those who interrupted the big terrorist (Prime Minister) Netanyahu's speech and didn't get any punishment for that: http://mondoweiss.net/2011/10/irvine-11-conviction-reveals-double-standard-and-bias.html http://mondoweiss.net/2011/10/irvine-11-conviction-reveals-d... Jewish Voice for Peace statement on the Irvine 11 conviction: http://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/blog/jvp-statement-on-irvine-11-verdict http://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/blog/jvp-statement-on-irvine-... "This is a shameful day for the legal system and the Jewish communal leaders who actively supported this unfair railroading of young Muslim students and unprecedented attack on everyone's right to free speech. How can it be that the Israeli ambassador enjoys more rights in the United States than do young Muslim citizens?" More about the anti-Muslim racism coming home to roost: http://mondoweiss.net/2011/12/from-occupation-to-occupy-the-israelification-of-american-domestic-decurity.html http://mondoweiss.net/2011/12/from-occupation-to-occupy-the-... (edit: added JVP link) PS: Did we all forget that the US military mass-murderers and Black Water / Xe / Academy mercenaries who went on killing sprees in Iraq and Afghanistan are all roaming free except maybe one guy who got a slap on the wrist (6 months?) for killing innocent men and children? Compare that to 12 years for uploading a video. Is there any doubt that there are separate laws (or separate application of laws) for Muslims?

maratd 14y ago

> Liberty and Justice for Non-Muslims Is there really any evidence this is happening only to Muslims? My impression was that everyone was being treated this way. Not that this makes things any better ...

einhverfr 14y ago
No, but there are some troubling patterns. Read Brandenburg v. Ohio and then read Holder v. Humanitarian Law Project. While it is protected to advocate terrorism and even genocide against African Americans to fellow KKK members under the First Amendment, it is not protected suggest to Hamas that they would be better off abandoning terrorism. Of course a different way to read this is that the law takes a harsher look at terrorism against whites than against blacks. Or one might see the court as eroding first amendment guarantees. It is all in how you look at it.
accountswu 14y ago
There are several examples in the article I quoted. I can google up tons of others. Various Christian terrorists are let go without any qualms while several Muslims have been rotting in jails without any trial or charges, or even worse, after the courts determined that there is nothing against them. Hutaree Milita's (Christian terrorists) were all released even though they had plans to kill government / law enforcement officials. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutaree#Michigan_Militia_and_the_Hutaree http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutaree#Michigan_Militia_and_th... The United States Attorney's Office stated that the Hutaree allegedly planned "to kill an unidentified member of local law enforcement and then attack the law enforcement officers who gather in Michigan for the funeral".[14][15] The press release further stated that nine had been indicted by a federal grand jury in Detroit on charges of seditious conspiracy, attempted use of weapons of mass destruction, teaching the use of explosive materials, and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence. The indictment said that the Hutaree planned to attack law enforcement vehicles during the funeral procession for the officer or officers they planned to kill, using explosively formed penetrator improvised explosive devices (which under federal law are considered "weapons of mass destruction").[15] Compare that to the various cases in which Muslim Americans were convicted and sentenced for tens of years because of their thoughts or their writings or for uploading a video on youtube. None of that is exaggerated, really a kid was arrested for uploading a video and was facing decades in prison. Tarek Mehanna - no violence, no crime committed except thought crimes. Sentenced for 17 years. http://www.salon.com/2012/04/13/the_real_criminals_in_the_tarek_mehanna_case/ http://www.salon.com/2012/04/13/the_real_criminals_in_the_ta... A pre-teen (or teen?) Canadian kid was abducted from Afghanistan and he was put in Guantanamo. If he had pleaded not guilty he would have had got a much longer sentence so he pleaded guilty. He was not on US soil when he allegedly committed that crime (if it was a crime). http://www.google.com/search?q=omar+khadr http://www.google.com/search?q=omar+khadr His chief interrogator was Joshua Claus, who later pleaded guilty to abusing detainees to extract confessions following the in-custody death of wrongly accused Dilawar that same year.[81] Jubair Ahmad, sentenced for uploading a youtube video and exchanging Youtube messages with a relative of a terrorist organization. The uploading of video is "material support" in the eyes of the system when the guy is a Muslim. http://tribune.com.pk/story/364387/us-court-hands-12-year-sentence-to-pakistan-born-american-for-supporting-let/ http://tribune.com.pk/story/364387/us-court-hands-12-year-se... When Hutaree militia was being given material support (military gear, cameras, guns) which appears to be more than youtube video and involved actual weapons of mass destruction, they were all released.
accountswu 14y ago
A couple of more examples, Jewish and Christian and other European white American students have protested at speeches of Israeli murderers (or speeches of folks that they don't agree with) and they have never been convicted for that, a group of 11 Muslim students was convicted for interrupting Israeli Ambassador Oren at UC Irvine last year, i.e. for doing what countless protesters have done before without conviction. This article is written by those who interrupted the big terrorist (Prime Minister) Netanyahu's speech and didn't get any punishment for that: http://mondoweiss.net/2011/10/irvine-11-conviction-reveals-double-standard-and-bias.html http://mondoweiss.net/2011/10/irvine-11-conviction-reveals-d... Jewish Voice for Peace statement on the Irvine 11 conviction: http://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/blog/jvp-statement-on-irvine-11-verdict http://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/blog/jvp-statement-on-irvine-... "This is a shameful day for the legal system and the Jewish communal leaders who actively supported this unfair railroading of young Muslim students and unprecedented attack on everyone's right to free speech. How can it be that the Israeli ambassador enjoys more rights in the United States than do young Muslim citizens?" More about the anti-Muslim racism coming home to roost: http://mondoweiss.net/2011/12/from-occupation-to-occupy-the-israelification-of-american-domestic-decurity.html http://mondoweiss.net/2011/12/from-occupation-to-occupy-the-... (edit: added JVP link) PS: Did we all forget that the US military mass-murderers and Black Water / Xe / Academy mercenaries who went on killing sprees in Iraq and Afghanistan are all roaming free except maybe one guy who got a slap on the wrist (6 months?) for killing innocent men and children? Compare that to 12 years for uploading a video. Is there any doubt that there are separate laws (or separate application of laws) for Muslims?