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> Why don't we wait until the evidence comes out before jumping to conclusions? Because people are being taken from the streets. The onus is on the people arre

> Why don't we wait until the evidence comes out before jumping to conclusions? Because people are being taken from the streets. The onus is on the people arresting her to show that they are in the right to do this. It's the United States and generally you expect people to be treated as if they're innocent until there's proof of their guilt. If they don't know why they're do this then they shouldn't be doing it.

ranger_danger 2y ago
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I also don't think that not giving evidence always means they are arresting the wrong person every time. It's not that I trust them, I don't, and I disagree with their tactics too, which I think are being (slowly) dealt with politically and judicially, but again I don't think it inherently means everyone they arrest is completely innocent.
- AlecSchueler 2y ago
  It turns out there is at least one innocent person down in El Salvador who they claim they "can't" get back. I agree with you that not providing evidence at the point of arrest isn't inherently indicative of ill intent but this administration refers to people wrongly arrested as "collateral," pays money for people to go to prison outside of American jurisdiction to make sure there's no fallout if they make mistakes etc etc. Is there no line where your trust level would shift?
  - ranger_danger 2y ago
    Oh I absolutely don't trust them, never have. I even mentioned that in the last message. I was just arguing on principle because people love to latch on to sensationalized stories that lack context and evidence... and usually it comes out later that it wasn't as big of a sky-is-falling event as people thought. It's entirely possible that isn't the case here though, I don't have enough information to say. If you're referring to Abrego Garcia, it later came out that the "administrative error" was due to an informant claiming he was a gang member, but I don't think there was ever any evidence of that, so I think it's still an unknown and an ongoing case. Certainly I think everyone should be entitled to due process though, illegal immigrant or not. And I can't tell if many of this admin's actions are willful deception or gross incompetence, or both. Your comment that they pay money for people to go to prison explicitly "to make sure there's no fallout if they make mistakes" sure seems unfounded and sensationalized to me though. It might look like that but I have not seen any proof that it's intentional in the way you say it.

ranger_danger 2y ago

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I also don't think that not giving evidence always means they are arresting the wrong person every time. It's not that I trust them, I don't, and I disagree with their tactics too, which I think are being (slowly) dealt with politically and judicially, but again I don't think it inherently means everyone they arrest is completely innocent.

AlecSchueler 2y ago
It turns out there is at least one innocent person down in El Salvador who they claim they "can't" get back. I agree with you that not providing evidence at the point of arrest isn't inherently indicative of ill intent but this administration refers to people wrongly arrested as "collateral," pays money for people to go to prison outside of American jurisdiction to make sure there's no fallout if they make mistakes etc etc. Is there no line where your trust level would shift?
- ranger_danger 2y ago
  Oh I absolutely don't trust them, never have. I even mentioned that in the last message. I was just arguing on principle because people love to latch on to sensationalized stories that lack context and evidence... and usually it comes out later that it wasn't as big of a sky-is-falling event as people thought. It's entirely possible that isn't the case here though, I don't have enough information to say. If you're referring to Abrego Garcia, it later came out that the "administrative error" was due to an informant claiming he was a gang member, but I don't think there was ever any evidence of that, so I think it's still an unknown and an ongoing case. Certainly I think everyone should be entitled to due process though, illegal immigrant or not. And I can't tell if many of this admin's actions are willful deception or gross incompetence, or both. Your comment that they pay money for people to go to prison explicitly "to make sure there's no fallout if they make mistakes" sure seems unfounded and sensationalized to me though. It might look like that but I have not seen any proof that it's intentional in the way you say it.