5 ms·

The loser in the AI model competition appears to be... Microsoft. When ChatGPT was the only game in town Microsoft was seen as a leader, thanks to their wise i

The loser in the AI model competition appears to be... Microsoft. When ChatGPT was the only game in town Microsoft was seen as a leader, thanks to their wise investment in Open AI. They relied on Open AI's model and didn't develop their own. As a result Microsoft has no interesting AI products. Copilot is a flop. Bing failed to take advantage of AI, Perplexity ate their lunch. Satya Nadella last year: “Google should have been the default winner in the world of big tech’s AI race”. Sundar Pichai's response: “I would love to do a side-by-side comparison of Microsoft’s own models and our models any day, any time. They are using someone else's model.” See: https://www.msn.com/en-in/money/news/sundar-pichai-vs-satya-nadella-google-ceo-dares-microsoft-boss-for-ai-face-off-any-day-any-time/ar-AA1vockF https://www.msn.com/en-in/money/news/sundar-pichai-vs-satya-...

dughnut 2y ago
Copilot is the only authorized AI at my company (50K FTE). I would be cautious to make any assumptions about how well anyone is doing in the AI space without some real numbers. My cynical opinion on enterprise software sales is that procurement decisions have absolutely nothing to do with product cost, performance, or value.
maxloh 2y ago
Note that Microsoft do have their own LLM team, and their own model called Phi-4. https://huggingface.co/microsoft/phi-4 https://huggingface.co/microsoft/phi-4
- VladVladikoff 2y ago
  Recently I was looking for a small LLM that could perform reasonably well while answering questions with low latency, for near realtime conversations running on a single RTX 3090. I settled on Microsoft’s Phi-4 model so far. However I’m not sure yet if my choice is good and open to more suggestions!
  - mywittyname 2y ago
    I've been using claude running via Ollama (incept5/llama3.1-claude) and I've been happy with the results. The only annoyance I have is that it won't search the internet for information because that capability is disabled via flag.
    - danielbln 2y ago
      That's.. that's not the Claude people talk about when they say Claude. Just to be sure.
gnatolf 2y ago
Any way you can back up that Copilot is a flop?
- breadwinner 2y ago
  Lots of articles on it... and I am not even talking about competitors like Benioff [1]. I am talking about user complaints like this [2]. Users expect Copilot to be fully integrated, like Cursor is into VSCode. Instead what you get is barely better than typing into standalone AI chats like Claude.AI. [1] https://www.cio.com/article/3586887/marc-benioff-rails-against-microsofts-copilot.html https://www.cio.com/article/3586887/marc-benioff-rails-again... [2] https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/discussions/microsoft365copilot/microsofts-copilot-a-frustrating-flop-in-ai-powered-productivity/4221190 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/discussions/microsoft365...
  - marlott 2y ago
    [dead]
  - paavohtl 2y ago
    The linked complaint is specifically about Microsoft Copilot, which despite the name is completely unrelated to the original GitHub Copilot. VS Code's integrated GitHub Copilot nowadays has the Copilot Edits feature, which can actually edit, refactor and generate files for you using a variety of models, pretty much exactly like Cursor.
    - breadwinner 2y ago
      Sorry I meant Microsoft Copilot should be as integrated into Office as Cursor is into VSCode. I was not talking about GitHub Copilot.
    - h3half 2y ago
      My read of the thread is that this discussion is specifically about Microsoft Copilot, not GitHub Copilot. Which I guess just goes to show how confusing Microsoft insists on making its making scheme
jcmp 2y ago
When my parent speak about AI, they call it Copilot. Mircosoft has a big Advantage that they can integrate AI in many daily used products, where it is not competing with their core product like Google
- ErrorNoBrain 2y ago
  And google has it built into my phone's text message app these days it seems like everyone is trying to get their AI to be the standard. i wonder how things will look in 10 years.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
ZeWaka 2y ago
I don't think the Copilot product is a flop - they're doing quite well selling it along with GitHub and Visual Studio (Code). The best part about it, coding-wise, is that you can choose between 7 different models.
- airstrike 2y ago
  I think he's talking about Microsoft Copilot 365, not the coding assistant. Makes one wonder how much they are offering to the owner of www.copilot.com and why on God's green earth they would abandon the very strong brand name "Office" and www.office.com
  - l5870uoo9y 2y ago
    Had to lookup office.com myself to see it; their office package is literally called MS Copilot.
    - airstrike 2y ago
      It gets worse, actually. My comment was inaccurate because it could also be the windows assistant outside of MS Office. At this point, Occam's Razor dictates companies must make these terribly confusing branding choices on purpose. It has to be by design.
- breadwinner 2y ago
  I consider Copilot a flop because it can't do anything. For example open Copilot on Windows and ask it to increase volume. It can't do it, but it will give you instructions for how to do it. In other words it is no better than standalone AI chat websites.

dughnut 2y ago

Copilot is the only authorized AI at my company (50K FTE). I would be cautious to make any assumptions about how well anyone is doing in the AI space without some real numbers. My cynical opinion on enterprise software sales is that procurement decisions have absolutely nothing to do with product cost, performance, or value.

maxloh 2y ago

Note that Microsoft do have their own LLM team, and their own model called Phi-4. https://huggingface.co/microsoft/phi-4 https://huggingface.co/microsoft/phi-4

VladVladikoff 2y ago
Recently I was looking for a small LLM that could perform reasonably well while answering questions with low latency, for near realtime conversations running on a single RTX 3090. I settled on Microsoft’s Phi-4 model so far. However I’m not sure yet if my choice is good and open to more suggestions!
- mywittyname 2y ago
  I've been using claude running via Ollama (incept5/llama3.1-claude) and I've been happy with the results. The only annoyance I have is that it won't search the internet for information because that capability is disabled via flag.
  - danielbln 2y ago
    That's.. that's not the Claude people talk about when they say Claude. Just to be sure.

gnatolf 2y ago

Any way you can back up that Copilot is a flop?

breadwinner 2y ago
Lots of articles on it... and I am not even talking about competitors like Benioff [1]. I am talking about user complaints like this [2]. Users expect Copilot to be fully integrated, like Cursor is into VSCode. Instead what you get is barely better than typing into standalone AI chats like Claude.AI. [1] https://www.cio.com/article/3586887/marc-benioff-rails-against-microsofts-copilot.html https://www.cio.com/article/3586887/marc-benioff-rails-again... [2] https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/discussions/microsoft365copilot/microsofts-copilot-a-frustrating-flop-in-ai-powered-productivity/4221190 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/discussions/microsoft365...
- marlott 2y ago
  [dead]
- paavohtl 2y ago
  The linked complaint is specifically about Microsoft Copilot, which despite the name is completely unrelated to the original GitHub Copilot. VS Code's integrated GitHub Copilot nowadays has the Copilot Edits feature, which can actually edit, refactor and generate files for you using a variety of models, pretty much exactly like Cursor.
  - breadwinner 2y ago
    Sorry I meant Microsoft Copilot should be as integrated into Office as Cursor is into VSCode. I was not talking about GitHub Copilot.
  - h3half 2y ago
    My read of the thread is that this discussion is specifically about Microsoft Copilot, not GitHub Copilot. Which I guess just goes to show how confusing Microsoft insists on making its making scheme

jcmp 2y ago

When my parent speak about AI, they call it Copilot. Mircosoft has a big Advantage that they can integrate AI in many daily used products, where it is not competing with their core product like Google

ErrorNoBrain 2y ago
And google has it built into my phone's text message app these days it seems like everyone is trying to get their AI to be the standard. i wonder how things will look in 10 years.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

ZeWaka 2y ago

I don't think the Copilot product is a flop - they're doing quite well selling it along with GitHub and Visual Studio (Code). The best part about it, coding-wise, is that you can choose between 7 different models.

airstrike 2y ago
I think he's talking about Microsoft Copilot 365, not the coding assistant. Makes one wonder how much they are offering to the owner of www.copilot.com and why on God's green earth they would abandon the very strong brand name "Office" and www.office.com
- l5870uoo9y 2y ago
  Had to lookup office.com myself to see it; their office package is literally called MS Copilot.
  - airstrike 2y ago
    It gets worse, actually. My comment was inaccurate because it could also be the windows assistant outside of MS Office. At this point, Occam's Razor dictates companies must make these terribly confusing branding choices on purpose. It has to be by design.
breadwinner 2y ago
I consider Copilot a flop because it can't do anything. For example open Copilot on Windows and ask it to increase volume. It can't do it, but it will give you instructions for how to do it. In other words it is no better than standalone AI chat websites.