5 ms·

Even operator's original demo the first thing they showed was booking restaurant reservations and ordering groceries. I understand their need to demo something

Even operator's original demo the first thing they showed was booking restaurant reservations and ordering groceries. I understand their need to demo something intuitive but it's still debatable whether these tasks are ones that most people want delegated to black-box agents.

ToucanLoucan 2y ago
They don't. I have never once in my life wanted to talk to my smart speaker about what I wanted for dinner, not even because a smart speaker is/can be creepy, not because of social anxiety, no, it's just simpler and more straightforward to open Doordash on my damn phone, and look at a list of restaurants nearby to order from. Or browse a list of products on Amazon to buy. Or just call a restaurant to get a reservation. These tasks are trivial. And like, as a socially anxious millennial, no I don't particularly like phone calls. However I also recognize that setting my discomfort aside, a direct connection to a human being who can help reason out a problem I'm having is not something easily replaced with a chatbot or an AI assistant. It just isn't. Perfect example: called a place to make a reservation for myself, my wife and girlfriend (poly long story) and found the place didn't usually do reservations on the day in question, but the person did ask when we'd be there. As I was talking to a person, I could provide that information immediately, and say "if you don't take reservations don't worry, that's fine," but it was an off-busy hour so we got one anyway. How does an AI navigate that conversation more efficiently than me? As a techie person I basically spend the entire day interacting with various software to perform various tasks, work related and otherwise. I cannot overstate: NONE of these interactions, not a single one, is improved one iota by turning it into a conversation, verbal or text-based, with my or someone else's computer. By definition it makes basic tasks take longer, every time, without fail.
- bluGill 2y ago
  I've more than once been on a roadtrip and realized that wanted something to help me find a meal where I'll be sometime in the next 2 hours. I have no idea what the options are and I can't find them. All too often I've taken some generic fast food when I really wanted something local but I couldn't get maps to tell me and such things are one street away where I wouldn't see it. (remember too if i'm driving I can't spend time to scroll through a list - but even when I'm navigator the interface I can find in maps isn't good)
  - simonw 2y ago
    I'm on a road trip across Utah and Colorado right now and I've been experimenting with both Gemini and OpenAI Deep Research for this kind of thing with surprisingly decent results. Here's one transcript from this morning: https://chatgpt.com/share/67e9f968-4e88-8006-b672-13381d5e95ed https://chatgpt.com/share/67e9f968-4e88-8006-b672-13381d5e95...
  - xarope 2y ago
    You definitely would not want the existing SEO enhanced search results. And definitely not the not-too-distant future of SEO enhanced, AI poisoned listings where every eating place proudly declares itself "most likely/probably the best burger joint". We need to go back to a more innocent time when we could ask a select group of friends and their trusted chain of friends for recommendations. Not what social media is today.
    - genewitch 2y ago
      I don't have friends all over the country, and I submit that, if the adage "150 people" is true, no one has friends "all over the country". I dislike driving through Texas, and so, most road trips involve McDonalds - the only time I eat the junk. My car's inbuilt nav is 13 years out of date, so it knows major throughways but not, for instance, that the road I live on has its own interface to the "highway", and so on, up to restaurants. Phones are unreliable in a lot of the US, and at one point I had a spare phone with all of its storage dedicated to offline Google maps just so I wouldn't get stuck in the Rockies somewhere. Microsoft used to sell trip planning software and those were the good old days.
  - viraptor 2y ago
    I'm curious what the problem is with that task. I'd open Google maps, find a larger place in the right direction, confirm with directions that it's about 2h away, search for "dinner/lunch/restaurant/Japanese/tacos/..." in the visible area, choose something highly rated. I've done that lots of times successfully. What part is that fails for you? (As a non-driver of course)
    - 2y ago
- Terr_ 2y ago
  Agreed, verbally asking for X might make it easier for Aunt "where's the Any key" Tillie to get a solution, but it doesn't necessarily give a better solution for everyone else. Or, for that matter, solutions you can trust. Remember the pitch for Amazon Dash buttons, where you press it and it maybe-reorders a product for delivery, instantly and sight-unseen? What if the price changed? What if it's not exactly the same product anymore? Wait, did someone else already press it? Maybe I can get a better deal? etc. Actually, that spurs a random thought: Perhaps some of these smart-speaker ordering pitches land differently if someone is in a socioeconomic class where they're already accustomed to such tasks being done competently by human office-assistants, nannies, etc. Their default expectation might be higher, and they won't need to invest time pinching pennies like the rest of us.
- genewitch 2y ago
  Not to detract from your overall message; are there studies that say that millennials have more social anxiety? My wife is 9 months younger than me, and a millennial, whereas I am X. I have no social anxiety, at all - she and our kids do. Like, calling people on the phone requires a sit down and breathing exercises; I'm always the one to "run in to the store", not wanting to attend non-concert related venues that may be crowded. My parents were way older than boomers, and hers were boomers, so maybe that's it?

ToucanLoucan 2y ago

They don't. I have never once in my life wanted to talk to my smart speaker about what I wanted for dinner, not even because a smart speaker is/can be creepy, not because of social anxiety, no, it's just simpler and more straightforward to open Doordash on my damn phone, and look at a list of restaurants nearby to order from. Or browse a list of products on Amazon to buy. Or just call a restaurant to get a reservation. These tasks are trivial. And like, as a socially anxious millennial, no I don't particularly like phone calls. However I also recognize that setting my discomfort aside, a direct connection to a human being who can help reason out a problem I'm having is not something easily replaced with a chatbot or an AI assistant. It just isn't. Perfect example: called a place to make a reservation for myself, my wife and girlfriend (poly long story) and found the place didn't usually do reservations on the day in question, but the person did ask when we'd be there. As I was talking to a person, I could provide that information immediately, and say "if you don't take reservations don't worry, that's fine," but it was an off-busy hour so we got one anyway. How does an AI navigate that conversation more efficiently than me? As a techie person I basically spend the entire day interacting with various software to perform various tasks, work related and otherwise. I cannot overstate: NONE of these interactions, not a single one, is improved one iota by turning it into a conversation, verbal or text-based, with my or someone else's computer. By definition it makes basic tasks take longer, every time, without fail.

bluGill 2y ago
I've more than once been on a roadtrip and realized that wanted something to help me find a meal where I'll be sometime in the next 2 hours. I have no idea what the options are and I can't find them. All too often I've taken some generic fast food when I really wanted something local but I couldn't get maps to tell me and such things are one street away where I wouldn't see it. (remember too if i'm driving I can't spend time to scroll through a list - but even when I'm navigator the interface I can find in maps isn't good)
- simonw 2y ago
  I'm on a road trip across Utah and Colorado right now and I've been experimenting with both Gemini and OpenAI Deep Research for this kind of thing with surprisingly decent results. Here's one transcript from this morning: https://chatgpt.com/share/67e9f968-4e88-8006-b672-13381d5e95ed https://chatgpt.com/share/67e9f968-4e88-8006-b672-13381d5e95...
- xarope 2y ago
  You definitely would not want the existing SEO enhanced search results. And definitely not the not-too-distant future of SEO enhanced, AI poisoned listings where every eating place proudly declares itself "most likely/probably the best burger joint". We need to go back to a more innocent time when we could ask a select group of friends and their trusted chain of friends for recommendations. Not what social media is today.
  - genewitch 2y ago
    I don't have friends all over the country, and I submit that, if the adage "150 people" is true, no one has friends "all over the country". I dislike driving through Texas, and so, most road trips involve McDonalds - the only time I eat the junk. My car's inbuilt nav is 13 years out of date, so it knows major throughways but not, for instance, that the road I live on has its own interface to the "highway", and so on, up to restaurants. Phones are unreliable in a lot of the US, and at one point I had a spare phone with all of its storage dedicated to offline Google maps just so I wouldn't get stuck in the Rockies somewhere. Microsoft used to sell trip planning software and those were the good old days.
- viraptor 2y ago
  I'm curious what the problem is with that task. I'd open Google maps, find a larger place in the right direction, confirm with directions that it's about 2h away, search for "dinner/lunch/restaurant/Japanese/tacos/..." in the visible area, choose something highly rated. I've done that lots of times successfully. What part is that fails for you? (As a non-driver of course)
  - 2y ago
Terr_ 2y ago
Agreed, verbally asking for X might make it easier for Aunt "where's the Any key" Tillie to get a solution, but it doesn't necessarily give a better solution for everyone else. Or, for that matter, solutions you can trust. Remember the pitch for Amazon Dash buttons, where you press it and it maybe-reorders a product for delivery, instantly and sight-unseen? What if the price changed? What if it's not exactly the same product anymore? Wait, did someone else already press it? Maybe I can get a better deal? etc. Actually, that spurs a random thought: Perhaps some of these smart-speaker ordering pitches land differently if someone is in a socioeconomic class where they're already accustomed to such tasks being done competently by human office-assistants, nannies, etc. Their default expectation might be higher, and they won't need to invest time pinching pennies like the rest of us.
genewitch 2y ago
Not to detract from your overall message; are there studies that say that millennials have more social anxiety? My wife is 9 months younger than me, and a millennial, whereas I am X. I have no social anxiety, at all - she and our kids do. Like, calling people on the phone requires a sit down and breathing exercises; I'm always the one to "run in to the store", not wanting to attend non-concert related venues that may be crowded. My parents were way older than boomers, and hers were boomers, so maybe that's it?