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Exactly, I get a little bit uneasy with people throwing around "got disappeared" - it lands as politically charged. What that means to me is something like Khm

by amy214 2y ago

Exactly, I get a little bit uneasy with people throwing around "got disappeared" - it lands as politically charged. What that means to me is something like Khmer Rouge, or Pinochet throwing thousands of people off planes into the ocean (no parachute), tentatively it means gulag, but even with gulag, you're not disappeared, you find out this person is in a gulag somewhere (though is likely to die), having myself read the Gulag Archipeligo. I'm 100% sure the US government, most governments, have "disappeared" people in a Pinochet style, it's just more rare and likely involves deep state spycraft type things. Even in Guantanamo, people lived, and people were known to be there, and I think that is how people are using "disappeared" i.e. extrajudicial and illegal, but alive and known to be somewhere. It reminds me of people using "violence" to describe writing or speech that make people feel bad, and it's like, okay, if that's what violence means what's the word for getting punched in the face, what's the word for getting tossed off a plane.

graemep 2y ago
The US has definitely been involved in disappearing people in other countries - and in providing support to people like Pinochet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor
hmcq6 2y ago
You guys are taking my previous comment out of context but that's less interesting than the fact that you have a strange definition of "disappeared". > Even in Guantanamo, people lived, and people were known to be there, and I think that is how people are using "disappeared" i.e. extrajudicial and illegal, but alive and known to be somewhere. So you're arguing that no one was disappeared to Gitmo because some information eventually came out about a few people? Or do you really believe everyone at Gitmo was publicly identified? A quick google reveals that Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch don't agree with you. For one, Bush admitted we were doing enforced disappearances > In early September 2006, US authorities transferred to Guantánamo 14 men who had been held in secret CIA custody. President George W. Bush finally admitted that, in the “war on terror”, the USA has been resorting to secret detentions and enforced disappearance, which is a crime under international law. https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/amr511592006en.pdf https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/amr511... Some of those men had been held incommunicado for 4 years at that point. Or, here is a list of people who, at the time, were believed to be disappeared at Gitmo https://www.hrw.org/legacy/backgrounder/usa/ct0607/4.htm#_Toc168878944 https://www.hrw.org/legacy/backgrounder/usa/ct0607/4.htm#_To... So yes, people were absolutely disappeared at/to Guantanamo Bay and you using Gitmo as your example makes me really question your definition.

by amy214 2y ago

graemep 2y ago

The US has definitely been involved in disappearing people in other countries - and in providing support to people like Pinochet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor

hmcq6 2y ago

You guys are taking my previous comment out of context but that's less interesting than the fact that you have a strange definition of "disappeared". > Even in Guantanamo, people lived, and people were known to be there, and I think that is how people are using "disappeared" i.e. extrajudicial and illegal, but alive and known to be somewhere. So you're arguing that no one was disappeared to Gitmo because some information eventually came out about a few people? Or do you really believe everyone at Gitmo was publicly identified? A quick google reveals that Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch don't agree with you. For one, Bush admitted we were doing enforced disappearances > In early September 2006, US authorities transferred to Guantánamo 14 men who had been held in secret CIA custody. President George W. Bush finally admitted that, in the “war on terror”, the USA has been resorting to secret detentions and enforced disappearance, which is a crime under international law. https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/amr511592006en.pdf https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/amr511... Some of those men had been held incommunicado for 4 years at that point. Or, here is a list of people who, at the time, were believed to be disappeared at Gitmo https://www.hrw.org/legacy/backgrounder/usa/ct0607/4.htm#_Toc168878944 https://www.hrw.org/legacy/backgrounder/usa/ct0607/4.htm#_To... So yes, people were absolutely disappeared at/to Guantanamo Bay and you using Gitmo as your example makes me really question your definition.