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Would you agree the demoscene is slowly turning into generative-art-NFT-scene. I mean, lot of new effects get released a gif or genart snippets, and some are ac

by larodi 2y ago

Would you agree the demoscene is slowly turning into generative-art-NFT-scene. I mean, lot of new effects get released a gif or genart snippets, and some are actually really good. Also #genaury been a think for several years now. Not sure how this relates to the heritage status of older productions though.

dakom 2y ago
There's also some cool stuff brewing in the AVS space to allow nondeterminism, GPU, storage, and more.. for example, WAVS executes stuff off-chain in WASI components, and brings the result on-chain (secured by re-staking via Eigenlayer etc.)- so there's a roadmap to do things directly in wasi-gfx powered shaders and more low-level access like that
trollbridge 2y ago
Don’t see how NFTs are relevant. ML/LLM/AI/generative transformer generated art is at home in the demo scene. The demoscene has always embraced new ways to create art, and then find a way to pack it inside a 32kB cracktro or BBS insert in a zip file. I wonder what could be done wi the Fabrice Bellard’s very low bitrate audio compression, for example… Some of the imagination is “What could have been?” What demos could have existed in 1981 on contemporary hardware? It is a pathway into imagining other worlds.
- larodi 2y ago
  Fabrice Belliard, among other things, implements neural networks for fun and compression. I don’t think though he ever struggled to fit 32k or to do art, so dunno how this relates.
  - trollbridge 2y ago
    Well, demos tend to also be about fun and compression.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
arexxbifs 2y ago
It's not. Demoscene productions are released on the demoscene.
- larodi 2y ago
  hah, I sure do know where and when many of the legendary productions got released. besides - we (demogroup ancient pain) released two in 1996 and 1997. when were yours released to down-vote my actually very informed comment, for real? the fx scene in 2025 is full throttle with a short-form single-effect pieces being released daily, and some of them are actually quite good. some people also release the code to them unlike what demoscene guys did back in the day, as it all was closed culture, albeit free. my comment was really - if kids are incentivized to do genart for money, or to just share pieces of short-attention spam material, why do it for the classic fun of it of the demoscene?
  - joemi 2y ago
    I think the genart scene and demoscene might be at best related, but I don't think the genart scene _is_ the modern demoscene, as you seem to be implying. (That said, I'm assuming by "genart" you either mean modern AI-based generative art, or you mean all generative art in general. Either way, while somewhat/tangentially related to the demoscene, they are not direct analogs or descendants.)
    - larodi 2y ago
      I mean art generated with code. How was the code generated is not implied here. And I don’t mean AI diffusion but code which results in gfx or animation. Besides - demo scene was not only about performance, never was. Even though the hacker side of it is about it, the aesthetic is not.
      - joemi 2y ago
        In that case, "art generated with code" is the overall umbrella which contains the demoscene, and the AI art scene, and many other scenes. So it's not what the demoscene is turning into, for the same reason you wouldn't say "trees are what apple trees are turning into".
onename 2y ago
Not sure if we are following the same demoparties but I still see plenty of great demos, intros, music, etc. being released. I do see new compos being add liked Modern GFX, Animations, Photo, and Videos but I dont feel that deminish the creativity of the Demoscene. On a side note, I am looking forward to this year Revision demoparty.

by larodi 2y ago

dakom 2y ago

There's also some cool stuff brewing in the AVS space to allow nondeterminism, GPU, storage, and more.. for example, WAVS executes stuff off-chain in WASI components, and brings the result on-chain (secured by re-staking via Eigenlayer etc.)- so there's a roadmap to do things directly in wasi-gfx powered shaders and more low-level access like that

trollbridge 2y ago

Don’t see how NFTs are relevant. ML/LLM/AI/generative transformer generated art is at home in the demo scene. The demoscene has always embraced new ways to create art, and then find a way to pack it inside a 32kB cracktro or BBS insert in a zip file. I wonder what could be done wi the Fabrice Bellard’s very low bitrate audio compression, for example… Some of the imagination is “What could have been?” What demos could have existed in 1981 on contemporary hardware? It is a pathway into imagining other worlds.

larodi 2y ago
Fabrice Belliard, among other things, implements neural networks for fun and compression. I don’t think though he ever struggled to fit 32k or to do art, so dunno how this relates.
- trollbridge 2y ago
  Well, demos tend to also be about fun and compression.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

arexxbifs 2y ago

It's not. Demoscene productions are released on the demoscene.

larodi 2y ago
hah, I sure do know where and when many of the legendary productions got released. besides - we (demogroup ancient pain) released two in 1996 and 1997. when were yours released to down-vote my actually very informed comment, for real? the fx scene in 2025 is full throttle with a short-form single-effect pieces being released daily, and some of them are actually quite good. some people also release the code to them unlike what demoscene guys did back in the day, as it all was closed culture, albeit free. my comment was really - if kids are incentivized to do genart for money, or to just share pieces of short-attention spam material, why do it for the classic fun of it of the demoscene?
- joemi 2y ago
  I think the genart scene and demoscene might be at best related, but I don't think the genart scene _is_ the modern demoscene, as you seem to be implying. (That said, I'm assuming by "genart" you either mean modern AI-based generative art, or you mean all generative art in general. Either way, while somewhat/tangentially related to the demoscene, they are not direct analogs or descendants.)
  - larodi 2y ago
    I mean art generated with code. How was the code generated is not implied here. And I don’t mean AI diffusion but code which results in gfx or animation. Besides - demo scene was not only about performance, never was. Even though the hacker side of it is about it, the aesthetic is not.
    - joemi 2y ago
      In that case, "art generated with code" is the overall umbrella which contains the demoscene, and the AI art scene, and many other scenes. So it's not what the demoscene is turning into, for the same reason you wouldn't say "trees are what apple trees are turning into".

onename 2y ago

Not sure if we are following the same demoparties but I still see plenty of great demos, intros, music, etc. being released. I do see new compos being add liked Modern GFX, Animations, Photo, and Videos but I dont feel that deminish the creativity of the Demoscene. On a side note, I am looking forward to this year Revision demoparty.