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Huh? I don't think it's the Muslim world that did the cleansing lol. At least in morocco most of the Jewish population left after Israel was founded, after the

Huh? I don't think it's the Muslim world that did the cleansing lol. At least in morocco most of the Jewish population left after Israel was founded, after the actual Holocaust in Europe. Not because of ethnic cleansing (though I agree they were treated badly, and I understand why they left). But according to you the ethnic cleansing of the Jews was okay because it somehow wasn't a genocide right? Otherwise why would you be okay with what Israel is doing right now after saying that what israel is doing is just like the cleansing of the Jews? And going back to the original point, are you saying that voting against the administration that enabled the gen- I mean ethnic cleansing of your population is somehow voting against your self interests? Talk about complete partisan blindsidedness.

dlubarov 2y ago
You don't believe that Jews were ethnically cleansed from Muslim countries? Considering Egypt for example, what else would we call the expulsion of 25,000 Jews? Morocco in particular didn't have an explicit state policy of ethnically cleansing Jews, but "treated badly" is a bit of an understatement, considering the pogroms and the government policy of essentially holding Jews for ransom.
- mardifoufs 2y ago
  Actually you are right, I was wrong about that. I was thinking about before Israel's foundation (as in, Jews lived in the Muslim worlds for a long time without ethnic cleansing). As for morocco, yes they were very much treated as worse than second class citizens. So yeah, I agree that Jews were basically pushed to leave, and at some point were just directly kicked out and cleansed out of a lot of Muslim countries. I just find it weird to justify Israel's actions by saying that what they are doing is "just ethnic cleansing" which is basically what the comment I was replying was doing. Not only is it super weird, but it's also telling to only apply that logic to Muslims. Can Jews just go and massacre Germans and Europeans because of the Holocaust? Then why justify the wholesale destruction of a Muslim city with that?
  - boxed 2y ago
    I didn't say "just" ethnic cleansing. I said that ethnic cleansing is different from genocide. Because it is. We should be careful to use the correct words.
    - cess11 2y ago
      In the sense mass murder is different from genocide, sure. It can be an expression of a genocidal regime but in some case it might not be. But since you refuse to explain why you want to make this distinction and how it applies to the treatment of the palestinians it doesn't seem like care, it seems more like you want to bikeshed.
    - mardifoufs 2y ago
      I mean you said that Israel is commiting an ethnic cleansing, and that you still support Israel. Or did I misread the comment?
- cess11 2y ago
  This is such a weird and ahistorical view. The jews in Egypt didn't have much problems with their neighbours until nazism and zionism arrived. 'The bad muslims mistreated the jews when they came under influence of german thought, typical muslims, a european would never'. Jews lived in Morocco since the first century AD, with the exception of the Fez massacre in 1033, mainly in peace. It's where jews could find immediate refuge when the christians drove them out of al-Andalus. 1948 onwards there were anti-jewish riots in Morocco, in response to jews leaving to presumably take part in the zionist atrocities in Palestine and the state of Israel. Today anti-jewish and anti-zionist sentiment in Morocco is typically tied into anti-monarchist views, the king is perceived to be a traitor and possibly controlled by some supposed jewish conspiracy. You'll find a rather clear expression of this in e.g. Ahmed Rami, the infamous exiled antisemite, who combines distinctly nazi antisemitism with a moroccan muslim nationalism.
  - myth_drannon 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - cess11 2y ago
      I take it you wanted to start your list after islam arrived, but failed and doesn't know the muslims didn't arrive until 639 or so? And that's why you left out the roman pogroms? It's for good reason sharia prescribes legal protections for jews, christian romans and byzantians persecuted jews incessantly. Did you take your list from https://medium.com/@Ksantini/the-list-of-crimes-committed-by-muslims-against-jews-since-the-7th-century-0ff1a8eb0ad0 https://medium.com/@Ksantini/the-list-of-crimes-committed-by... ? And just assume it's correct and doesn't mix in a lot of christian pogroms against jews? Edit: Zionism is mainly a protestant christian movement, it's a lot about historical revisionism regarding christian antisemitism. Most of the members are christians, the funding comes mainly from christians, the weapons are provided by christian countries, it's based on a naive distinctly protestant (i.e. 'literal' and cherry picked) reading of the Bible, and so on.
      - myth_drannon 2y ago

dlubarov 2y ago

You don't believe that Jews were ethnically cleansed from Muslim countries? Considering Egypt for example, what else would we call the expulsion of 25,000 Jews? Morocco in particular didn't have an explicit state policy of ethnically cleansing Jews, but "treated badly" is a bit of an understatement, considering the pogroms and the government policy of essentially holding Jews for ransom.

mardifoufs 2y ago
Actually you are right, I was wrong about that. I was thinking about before Israel's foundation (as in, Jews lived in the Muslim worlds for a long time without ethnic cleansing). As for morocco, yes they were very much treated as worse than second class citizens. So yeah, I agree that Jews were basically pushed to leave, and at some point were just directly kicked out and cleansed out of a lot of Muslim countries. I just find it weird to justify Israel's actions by saying that what they are doing is "just ethnic cleansing" which is basically what the comment I was replying was doing. Not only is it super weird, but it's also telling to only apply that logic to Muslims. Can Jews just go and massacre Germans and Europeans because of the Holocaust? Then why justify the wholesale destruction of a Muslim city with that?
- boxed 2y ago
  I didn't say "just" ethnic cleansing. I said that ethnic cleansing is different from genocide. Because it is. We should be careful to use the correct words.
  - cess11 2y ago
    In the sense mass murder is different from genocide, sure. It can be an expression of a genocidal regime but in some case it might not be. But since you refuse to explain why you want to make this distinction and how it applies to the treatment of the palestinians it doesn't seem like care, it seems more like you want to bikeshed.
  - mardifoufs 2y ago
    I mean you said that Israel is commiting an ethnic cleansing, and that you still support Israel. Or did I misread the comment?
cess11 2y ago
This is such a weird and ahistorical view. The jews in Egypt didn't have much problems with their neighbours until nazism and zionism arrived. 'The bad muslims mistreated the jews when they came under influence of german thought, typical muslims, a european would never'. Jews lived in Morocco since the first century AD, with the exception of the Fez massacre in 1033, mainly in peace. It's where jews could find immediate refuge when the christians drove them out of al-Andalus. 1948 onwards there were anti-jewish riots in Morocco, in response to jews leaving to presumably take part in the zionist atrocities in Palestine and the state of Israel. Today anti-jewish and anti-zionist sentiment in Morocco is typically tied into anti-monarchist views, the king is perceived to be a traitor and possibly controlled by some supposed jewish conspiracy. You'll find a rather clear expression of this in e.g. Ahmed Rami, the infamous exiled antisemite, who combines distinctly nazi antisemitism with a moroccan muslim nationalism.
- myth_drannon 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - cess11 2y ago
    I take it you wanted to start your list after islam arrived, but failed and doesn't know the muslims didn't arrive until 639 or so? And that's why you left out the roman pogroms? It's for good reason sharia prescribes legal protections for jews, christian romans and byzantians persecuted jews incessantly. Did you take your list from https://medium.com/@Ksantini/the-list-of-crimes-committed-by-muslims-against-jews-since-the-7th-century-0ff1a8eb0ad0 https://medium.com/@Ksantini/the-list-of-crimes-committed-by... ? And just assume it's correct and doesn't mix in a lot of christian pogroms against jews? Edit: Zionism is mainly a protestant christian movement, it's a lot about historical revisionism regarding christian antisemitism. Most of the members are christians, the funding comes mainly from christians, the weapons are provided by christian countries, it's based on a naive distinctly protestant (i.e. 'literal' and cherry picked) reading of the Bible, and so on.
    - myth_drannon 2y ago