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Marine Le Pen Barred from 2027 French Presidency Run

19 points by Ozarkian 2y ago

like_any_other 2y ago
The meat of her conviction seems to be: The three-time presidential candidate was accused of having hired four fictitious assistants when she was an MEP (2004-2017). In reality, they allegedly worked for the Front National (FN). The assistants, who were paid by the European Parliament, allegedly carried out tasks linked to the management of the party rather than work related to European parliamentary activity, as is normally required of such positions. https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2025/03/31/french-far-right-leader-marine-le-pen-found-guilty-of-embezzlement-of-public-funds_6739685_7.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2025/03/31/french-f...
- soco 2y ago
  Now that she was convicted, it's not "allegedly" anymore is it. Why then this formulation?
  - like_any_other 2y ago
    From the point of view of the journalist writing that article, it's still alleged - only that now a court agrees with the allegations. But the court could be mistaken - it has happened before. It is only in a strictly legal sense that it is not alleged anymore, but proven (and there is still the appeal).
    - soco 2y ago
      But after this appeal and when any upper courts finish their procedures and all possibilities of appeal, can one finally drop the "alleged"? (I also wonder why the downvoting but yeah that's HN)
      - like_any_other 2y ago
        That's up to the journalist, but I think keeping and dropping it are both reasonable choices. Suppose this had happened in a corrupt legal system (where both the journalist and reader agree it is corrupt) - in that case we would expect the 'alleged' to remain. And even non-corrupt legal systems can make mistakes - I've heard people with experience in the matter express low faith in the abilities of US juries, for example.
deleted 2y ago
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mytailorisrich 2y ago
"All the RN officials including Le Pen were banned from running for office, with the judge specifying that the sanction should come into force with immediate effect even if an appeal is lodged." This will lead to even more claims that this is all politically motivated because this immediate effect is what will prevent her from running from President. This immediate effect for a verdict that is not final (there can be, and in this case will be, an appeal) is not automatic, it is for the court to specifically mandate it, and if it does not then an appeal suspends the effect.

19 points by Ozarkian 2y ago

The meat of her conviction seems to be: The three-time presidential candidate was accused of having hired four fictitious assistants when she was an MEP (2004-2017). In reality, they allegedly worked for the Front National (FN). The assistants, who were paid by the European Parliament, allegedly carried out tasks linked to the management of the party rather than work related to European parliamentary activity, as is normally required of such positions. https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2025/03/31/french-far-right-leader-marine-le-pen-found-guilty-of-embezzlement-of-public-funds_6739685_7.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2025/03/31/french-f...

soco 2y ago
Now that she was convicted, it's not "allegedly" anymore is it. Why then this formulation?
- like_any_other 2y ago
  From the point of view of the journalist writing that article, it's still alleged - only that now a court agrees with the allegations. But the court could be mistaken - it has happened before. It is only in a strictly legal sense that it is not alleged anymore, but proven (and there is still the appeal).
  - soco 2y ago
    But after this appeal and when any upper courts finish their procedures and all possibilities of appeal, can one finally drop the "alleged"? (I also wonder why the downvoting but yeah that's HN)
    - like_any_other 2y ago
      That's up to the journalist, but I think keeping and dropping it are both reasonable choices. Suppose this had happened in a corrupt legal system (where both the journalist and reader agree it is corrupt) - in that case we would expect the 'alleged' to remain. And even non-corrupt legal systems can make mistakes - I've heard people with experience in the matter express low faith in the abilities of US juries, for example.

deleted 2y ago

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mytailorisrich 2y ago

"All the RN officials including Le Pen were banned from running for office, with the judge specifying that the sanction should come into force with immediate effect even if an appeal is lodged." This will lead to even more claims that this is all politically motivated because this immediate effect is what will prevent her from running from President. This immediate effect for a verdict that is not final (there can be, and in this case will be, an appeal) is not automatic, it is for the court to specifically mandate it, and if it does not then an appeal suspends the effect.