4 ms·

A visa is a revocable privilege - not a right. You have the right to free speech - and you will not be prosecuted, fined, or put into prison: deportation isn't

by 15155 2y ago

A visa is a revocable privilege - not a right. You have the right to free speech - and you will not be prosecuted, fined, or put into prison: deportation isn't prison. Alien visitors are not entitled to the spoils of citizenship - what is citizenship, otherwise?

piva00 2y ago
Alien visitors are entitled to all rights in the soil of the USA, citizenship increases their means to participate in civics but it's not citizenship who grants rights like freedom of speech, etc. > You have the right to free speech - and you will not be prosecuted, fined, or put into prison: deportation isn't prison. Oh damn, what a nice loophole you found there, deporting them to a gulag in El Salvador isn't technically imprisonment in some twisted legal semantics game... To every other functioning mature democracy it's imprisonment.
- 15155 2y ago
  > Alien visitors are entitled to all rights in the soil of the USA Except voting, firearms ownership, the ability to work, etc. What else? (* sans LPR status - they're not 'rights' if someone can take them away, though.) I love how "behave or go home" now equals "imprisonment." Please keep espousing this nonsense: 2028 will be fun.
  - piva00 2y ago
    > Except voting, firearms ownership, the ability to work, etc. What else? (* sans LPR status - they're not 'rights' if someone can take them away, though.) Those are further regulated in other laws, freedom of speech is clearly defined in your Constitution to be unregulated by any laws the government shall pass. You're saying that is completely fine for the US government to regulate speech of non-citizens, rather surprising to see an American spouting this position but glad to see you clearly stand for it, ironic though it's quite anti-American to believe speech can be curtailed by the government when it fits your wants :) > Please keep espousing this nonsense: 2028 will be fun. You seem to be too compromised ideologically to have any rational discussion around this topic. Sad to see Americans subscribing to anti-freedom ideology whole-heartedly but it seems to be the way in 2025. Not very fun to watch, just quite sad to see that even on this corner of the internet where one expects more leveled discourse to have gone this way.
  - miracle2k 2y ago
    > Please keep espousing this nonsense: 2028 will be fun. I hope our little pushback against deporting random legally present gay bakers to the foreign gulag doesn't force you to support Trump's 2028 22nd amendment violation.
  - testing22321 2y ago
    > Except firearms ownership I was a tourist in the US and got a state ID card. In Walmart I got a photo holding an assault rifle because I was stunned. The guy said with my state ID card I could buy it right then and as much ammo as I wanted.
    - 15155 2y ago
      The guy at Walmart might have been mistaken about the law (surprise?): if you are a resident you may own and purchase firearms, a tourist would not be eligible - but there's nothing stopping you from lying on forms (besides the penalty of perjury.)
      - testing22321 2y ago
        I got my state ID card because I had a 6 month tourist visa, and the state considered me a resident. They won’t give a state ID if a tourist is on the I94 90 day visa waiver.
- acidmath 2y ago
  > Alien visitors are entitled to all rights in the soil of the USA Where in the US Constitution do you believe this is stipulated? > democracy The USA is not a democracy. The USA is a larger republic of a union of republics.
  - miracle2k 2y ago
    > The USA is not a democracy. The USA is a larger republic of a union of republics. "The USA is a democracy" is a perfectly valid and correct statement. "No, it's a republic" is kind of a nonsensical retort, and I'm not sure how it got so popular. There literally are no democracies which do not have representative elements, and "constitutional republic" and "constitutional monarchy" are concepts that are both perfectly compatible with the separate concept of democracy.
  - piva00 2y ago
    > The USA is not a democracy. The USA is a larger republic of a union of republics. Democracy is a system for choosing government representation, republic is a "res publica" or a "thing of the people" where political power is bestowed upon the people by representatives, they are two sides of keeping a democratic republic. If the USA isn't democratic but a republic then you don't select your representatives through voting, you can have representatives selected for you, and I don't believe that's the current system of government selection in place, is it?
benmmurphy 2y ago
US citizens do have a right to listen to the opinions of others under the first amendment so if the US government does have a visa program then it needs to be run in a way that is viewpoint neutral. so the US government can't revoke the visa's of people who have controversial opinions. of course the funny thing is being lectured about this by people from Europe or other countries like NZ, AU, CA or UK where it is common place for the government to revoke or deny visas for people who have the wrong opinions.
- 15155 2y ago
  > US citizens do have a right to listen to the opinions of others under the first amendment so if the US government does have a visa program then it needs to be run in a way that is viewpoint neutral. Got it, so because Americans have the right to free speech, everyone is entitled to be in the United States so that they can be heard? Get real. Visitors have the right to free speech without imprisonment: the United States has the right to revoke visas for any or no reason at all. Visas are a privilege.

by 15155 2y ago

piva00 2y ago

Alien visitors are entitled to all rights in the soil of the USA, citizenship increases their means to participate in civics but it's not citizenship who grants rights like freedom of speech, etc. > You have the right to free speech - and you will not be prosecuted, fined, or put into prison: deportation isn't prison. Oh damn, what a nice loophole you found there, deporting them to a gulag in El Salvador isn't technically imprisonment in some twisted legal semantics game... To every other functioning mature democracy it's imprisonment.

15155 2y ago
> Alien visitors are entitled to all rights in the soil of the USA Except voting, firearms ownership, the ability to work, etc. What else? (* sans LPR status - they're not 'rights' if someone can take them away, though.) I love how "behave or go home" now equals "imprisonment." Please keep espousing this nonsense: 2028 will be fun.
- piva00 2y ago
  > Except voting, firearms ownership, the ability to work, etc. What else? (* sans LPR status - they're not 'rights' if someone can take them away, though.) Those are further regulated in other laws, freedom of speech is clearly defined in your Constitution to be unregulated by any laws the government shall pass. You're saying that is completely fine for the US government to regulate speech of non-citizens, rather surprising to see an American spouting this position but glad to see you clearly stand for it, ironic though it's quite anti-American to believe speech can be curtailed by the government when it fits your wants :) > Please keep espousing this nonsense: 2028 will be fun. You seem to be too compromised ideologically to have any rational discussion around this topic. Sad to see Americans subscribing to anti-freedom ideology whole-heartedly but it seems to be the way in 2025. Not very fun to watch, just quite sad to see that even on this corner of the internet where one expects more leveled discourse to have gone this way.
- miracle2k 2y ago
  > Please keep espousing this nonsense: 2028 will be fun. I hope our little pushback against deporting random legally present gay bakers to the foreign gulag doesn't force you to support Trump's 2028 22nd amendment violation.
- testing22321 2y ago
  > Except firearms ownership I was a tourist in the US and got a state ID card. In Walmart I got a photo holding an assault rifle because I was stunned. The guy said with my state ID card I could buy it right then and as much ammo as I wanted.
  - 15155 2y ago
    The guy at Walmart might have been mistaken about the law (surprise?): if you are a resident you may own and purchase firearms, a tourist would not be eligible - but there's nothing stopping you from lying on forms (besides the penalty of perjury.)
    - testing22321 2y ago
      I got my state ID card because I had a 6 month tourist visa, and the state considered me a resident. They won’t give a state ID if a tourist is on the I94 90 day visa waiver.
acidmath 2y ago
> Alien visitors are entitled to all rights in the soil of the USA Where in the US Constitution do you believe this is stipulated? > democracy The USA is not a democracy. The USA is a larger republic of a union of republics.
- miracle2k 2y ago
  > The USA is not a democracy. The USA is a larger republic of a union of republics. "The USA is a democracy" is a perfectly valid and correct statement. "No, it's a republic" is kind of a nonsensical retort, and I'm not sure how it got so popular. There literally are no democracies which do not have representative elements, and "constitutional republic" and "constitutional monarchy" are concepts that are both perfectly compatible with the separate concept of democracy.
- piva00 2y ago
  > The USA is not a democracy. The USA is a larger republic of a union of republics. Democracy is a system for choosing government representation, republic is a "res publica" or a "thing of the people" where political power is bestowed upon the people by representatives, they are two sides of keeping a democratic republic. If the USA isn't democratic but a republic then you don't select your representatives through voting, you can have representatives selected for you, and I don't believe that's the current system of government selection in place, is it?

benmmurphy 2y ago

US citizens do have a right to listen to the opinions of others under the first amendment so if the US government does have a visa program then it needs to be run in a way that is viewpoint neutral. so the US government can't revoke the visa's of people who have controversial opinions. of course the funny thing is being lectured about this by people from Europe or other countries like NZ, AU, CA or UK where it is common place for the government to revoke or deny visas for people who have the wrong opinions.

15155 2y ago
> US citizens do have a right to listen to the opinions of others under the first amendment so if the US government does have a visa program then it needs to be run in a way that is viewpoint neutral. Got it, so because Americans have the right to free speech, everyone is entitled to be in the United States so that they can be heard? Get real. Visitors have the right to free speech without imprisonment: the United States has the right to revoke visas for any or no reason at all. Visas are a privilege.