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What a weird way to conclude an article, to suggest that an Antarctic bus will be remembered as coming from an era of "McMurdo’s persistent culture of sexual ha

by avar 2y ago

What a weird way to conclude an article, to suggest that an Antarctic bus will be remembered as coming from an era of "McMurdo’s persistent culture of sexual harassment". Then when you click through that article you can read about, among other things, a case where "the AP generally does not identify those who say they have been sexually assaulted unless they publicly identify themselves". But they have qualms about including the name of the supposed attacker, who you can find (not from the AP) was found unanimously not guilty by a jury[1], in a case that whatever anyone believes about it, had nothing whatsoever to do with sexual harassment or sexual assault. The alleged victim had supposedly stolen the defendants nametag, because she was upset about not being invited to a party. When confronted she refused to give it back, and the defendant forcibly retrieved it from her. Is there a name for this fever dream style of writing, that even if you follow up on all the loose ends dropped throughout, find that some of them evaporate under scrutiny? 1. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/stephen-tyler-bieneman-not-guilty-assaulting-woman-mcmurdo-station-antarctica/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/stephen-tyler-bieneman-not-guil...

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
bombcar 2y ago
It's somehow related to self-referential news (where most "news" articles aren't reporting that a thing happened, but that another news agency reported that it happened) - it's almost "wikification", where what matters is the link and someone else having said it, original research is forbidden. Of course, this problem has existed forever - rumor vs fact, the oft-misattributed to Twain "a lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on".
rafram 2y ago
The NSF itself said that sexual harassment is a problem at the base. They surveyed women there and 59 percent said they had been harassed. There have been a few named individuals accused of harassment there and a few victims who’ve come forward without asking for anonymity, but the point is that it’s so pervasive that there’s almost no point in trying to find individual perpetrators. Over half of all women at McMurdo are harassed! https://www.npr.org/2023/11/03/1210418182/antarctica-sexual-harassment-national-science-foundation-investigation https://www.npr.org/2023/11/03/1210418182/antarctica-sexual-...
- avar 2y ago
  > The NSF itself said that sexual harassment > is a problem at the base. I'm not claiming otherwise, I was commenting on how bizarre it is to work this into an article about a transport bus in Antarctica. > They surveyed women there and 59 percent > said they had been harassed. I don't think they did. Did you read the report? The survey[1] had a 24% response rate, so that 59% number is extrapolated from that, it's actually just over 14%. The report certainly contains some deeply troubling anecdotes, but (no surprise) there's a wide chasm between what it claims, and how it's been reported on. But don't take my word for it, read what they have to say on page 28: "[...]it is important to note that the survey and focus group questions were not designed to elicit information regarding the prevalence or incidence of sexual assault within USAP. This remains an effort for the future. Instead, the qualitative and quantitative data elicited extensive information regarding individuals’ experiences and perceptions. Team LDSS did not independently investigate or otherwise seek to verify the accuracy of individuals’ reporting." That 59% claim comes from a footnote on page 33 of the report. 33%/47% of men/women said "sexual assault" was a problem in the USAP, and 48%/72% of men/women said the same of "sexual assault". The 59% is then women respondents who had a "negative experience" with either assault or harassment. I don't believe that means, as you claim, that "they had been harassed". Earlier on page 30 they say: Approximately 40% of all focus group participants discussed a personal negative experience with sexual assault or sexual harassment Neither of those percentages in footnotes appear to be supported by accompanying source data. But since they go out of their way to distinguish between a "negative experience" and "personal negative experience", the 59% appears to refer to some broader category than personal experience with harassment or assault. 1. https://www.nsf.gov/geo/opp/documents/USAP%20SAHPR%20Report.pdf https://www.nsf.gov/geo/opp/documents/USAP%20SAHPR%20Report....
  - petsfed 2y ago
    >The survey[1] had a 24% response rate, so that 59% number is extrapolated from that, it's actually just over 14%. That's not how statistical extrapolation works. Here's a recent study that uses modern statistical modelling methods to extrapolate actual harassment rates from reporting rates that suffer strongly from self-selection bias in a similar environment: [0] Perhaps they can repeat the original study in light of the suggested methods just published. 0. https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/marine-science/articles/10.3389/fmars.2024.1461655/full https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/marine-science/articles...
teddyh 2y ago
> Is there a name for this fever dream style of writing, that even if you follow up on all the loose ends dropped throughout, find that some of them evaporate under scrutiny? Journalism.
s1artibartfast 2y ago
Thats not how I read the closing and description of the prior era. I read it as one that was more human, before being stamped out and sterilized due to the PR challenges is posed.
_ea1k 2y ago
> Is there a name for this fever dream style of writing, that even if you follow up on all the loose ends dropped throughout, find that some of them evaporate under scrutiny? It is called journalism.

by avar 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

bombcar 2y ago

It's somehow related to self-referential news (where most "news" articles aren't reporting that a thing happened, but that another news agency reported that it happened) - it's almost "wikification", where what matters is the link and someone else having said it, original research is forbidden. Of course, this problem has existed forever - rumor vs fact, the oft-misattributed to Twain "a lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on".

rafram 2y ago

The NSF itself said that sexual harassment is a problem at the base. They surveyed women there and 59 percent said they had been harassed. There have been a few named individuals accused of harassment there and a few victims who’ve come forward without asking for anonymity, but the point is that it’s so pervasive that there’s almost no point in trying to find individual perpetrators. Over half of all women at McMurdo are harassed! https://www.npr.org/2023/11/03/1210418182/antarctica-sexual-harassment-national-science-foundation-investigation https://www.npr.org/2023/11/03/1210418182/antarctica-sexual-...

avar 2y ago
> The NSF itself said that sexual harassment > is a problem at the base. I'm not claiming otherwise, I was commenting on how bizarre it is to work this into an article about a transport bus in Antarctica. > They surveyed women there and 59 percent > said they had been harassed. I don't think they did. Did you read the report? The survey[1] had a 24% response rate, so that 59% number is extrapolated from that, it's actually just over 14%. The report certainly contains some deeply troubling anecdotes, but (no surprise) there's a wide chasm between what it claims, and how it's been reported on. But don't take my word for it, read what they have to say on page 28: "[...]it is important to note that the survey and focus group questions were not designed to elicit information regarding the prevalence or incidence of sexual assault within USAP. This remains an effort for the future. Instead, the qualitative and quantitative data elicited extensive information regarding individuals’ experiences and perceptions. Team LDSS did not independently investigate or otherwise seek to verify the accuracy of individuals’ reporting." That 59% claim comes from a footnote on page 33 of the report. 33%/47% of men/women said "sexual assault" was a problem in the USAP, and 48%/72% of men/women said the same of "sexual assault". The 59% is then women respondents who had a "negative experience" with either assault or harassment. I don't believe that means, as you claim, that "they had been harassed". Earlier on page 30 they say: Approximately 40% of all focus group participants discussed a personal negative experience with sexual assault or sexual harassment Neither of those percentages in footnotes appear to be supported by accompanying source data. But since they go out of their way to distinguish between a "negative experience" and "personal negative experience", the 59% appears to refer to some broader category than personal experience with harassment or assault. 1. https://www.nsf.gov/geo/opp/documents/USAP%20SAHPR%20Report.pdf https://www.nsf.gov/geo/opp/documents/USAP%20SAHPR%20Report....
- petsfed 2y ago
  >The survey[1] had a 24% response rate, so that 59% number is extrapolated from that, it's actually just over 14%. That's not how statistical extrapolation works. Here's a recent study that uses modern statistical modelling methods to extrapolate actual harassment rates from reporting rates that suffer strongly from self-selection bias in a similar environment: [0] Perhaps they can repeat the original study in light of the suggested methods just published. 0. https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/marine-science/articles/10.3389/fmars.2024.1461655/full https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/marine-science/articles...

teddyh 2y ago

> Is there a name for this fever dream style of writing, that even if you follow up on all the loose ends dropped throughout, find that some of them evaporate under scrutiny? Journalism.

s1artibartfast 2y ago

Thats not how I read the closing and description of the prior era. I read it as one that was more human, before being stamped out and sterilized due to the PR challenges is posed.

_ea1k 2y ago

> Is there a name for this fever dream style of writing, that even if you follow up on all the loose ends dropped throughout, find that some of them evaporate under scrutiny? It is called journalism.