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> the genocide contributed to bringing Trump to power Only because folks who refused to vote for Kamala said they could not stand her support of Israel policie

by belter 2y ago

> the genocide contributed to bringing Trump to power Only because folks who refused to vote for Kamala said they could not stand her support of Israel policies :-) Like poor voters in the Midwest, you can always count on a certain electorate, to vote against their own interests and what they care about...

lynx97 2y ago
As if Israel was the only reason to not vote for Harris. I dont remember much of her "platform" that actually would be in my interest. Make-believe-minority-politics isn't for the masses.
- dudefeliciano 2y ago
  to be honest i only remember the supposed $20000 subsidy for first homebuyers, but how was the alternative in your interest, and is it working out as expected?
danknuggetz 2y ago
That's just it though, the democratic and republican parties ran on Israel apartheid maintenance since the end of the second world war. And even in the face of a genocide, the democrats as a national party held the line and refused to consider the crime against humanity unfolding before them. How is electing them supposed to be taken? Should they continue to ignore human rights violations? There was no other way to signal to democrats, as they would rather lose to fascist dictators.
- boxed 2y ago
  20% of the population of Israel are Palestinians with full rights. Some were killed 7/10. There's a muslim party in the Knesset. Remind me again: how many black parties had representation in apartheid South Africa? You are confused because Israel HAS A apartheid state: the settlements (a small part of Israel in total). But that's not the same as Israel IS A apartheid state. If you can't separate HAS A from IS A you will fail your Object Oriented Programming 101 course, but no one seems to notice it when talking politics :P
  - mardifoufs 2y ago
    That's all cool. But it's just standard deflection from the tens of thousands of deaths that the Biden administration directly enabled. And Arabs living in Israel doesn't magically make all the very public statements that Israel made (like that they wanted to level the city to the ground, and displace its population once and for all), repeatedly and throughout the entire Gaza operation just go away.
    - boxed 2y ago
      Israel didn't make those statements. Specific members of radical parties did. Imagine judging a country by their worst people. I bet your country would fare quite badly.
      - mardifoufs 2y ago
        IDF generals did. Who else would you consider credible in representing what the IDF intended to do? Regardless I wasn't trying to make this about Israel's actions. But rather about what Biden (and didn't do) with Israel. He didn't even go as far as condemn the radical parties that you mentioned. Absolutely no red line, or anything. Just complete carte blanche. Again, even Bush or Reagan didn't let Israel do whatever they want with no political repercussions. Israel knew back then that some lines couldn't be crossed without losing American support. With Biden, they did whatever they wanted, said whatever they wanted and took advantage of that.
      - cess11 2y ago
        Likud is a mainstream party in Israel. Their prime minister has been making genocidal and atrocious statements for a very long time. Mainstream television in Israel has been in overdrive to secure popular consent for absolutely obscene crimes for more than one and a half year. 80% of israeli jews in Israel approve of genocidal treatment of palestinians in the Gaza strip in the form of ethnic cleansing, while 14% believe the public statements about this from world leaders to be a distraction and 3% consider it immoral. The broad israeli opposition, i.e. the large demonstrations in Tel Aviv and elsewhere and the politicians that support them, disagree with the government in which order to do things, not on whether the palestinians should be treated genocidally. They want to make the palestinians 'freyer', suckers, by signing any deal that brings israeli prisoners and hostages back and then continuing the genocidal process anyway. Meanwhile the government considers the prisoners and hostages better positioned in captivity, hence why they have been refusing negotiations, and then broke the ceasefire deal they went into earlier this year.
boxed 2y ago
The left refuses to vote for the left because the left isn't crazy and confused enough about jihadis. Checks out.
mardifoufs 2y ago
How is not voting for the administration that enabled and did absolutely nothing to stop the genocide of their relatives or community in Gaza voting against their self interest? You realize that the deaths that happened in Gaza are probably more important than whatever grievances you have against Trump for some people? We are talking about tens of thousands of deaths, directly enabled by the previous administration (not only politically but with direct military shipments of the bombs that killed said people). But Muslim lives are typically completely worthless for a large part of the American population so your comment doesn't really surprise me.
- amanaplanacanal 2y ago
  You think Trump is going to do better? Looks to me like he is doubling down on it.
  - mardifoufs 2y ago
    No, that's not what I said. But that doesn't mean that people would actively vote for the previous administration. They just won't vote at all. And I'm not sure what you mean by doubling down. Biden was basically letting Israel do whatever it wanted to do. Absolutely did nothing for more than a year of bloodshed. Doing anything (like direct discussions with Hamas, bypassing israel) is better than just doing nothing. Even if Trump is a drooling, die hard supporter of Israel. Like if Trump did what Biden let Israel do, I don't think the Muslim population would've been surprised. But even the reddest/war hawks of presidents(Reagan, Bush) never let Israel just have a complete carte blanche. Yet Biden, a supposed ally of the community, did.
    - modo_mario 2y ago
      A supposed ally of the community?
      - mardifoufs 2y ago
        Yes, Democrats have been historically seen as the party that cared the most about Muslim interests in the US. Just like it is the party that traditionally gets the most support from the black community for example. Again, this complete disregard for Muslim life could've been expected from Bush or whatever. But even he wouldn't have let Israel go this far without some sort of faint condemnation or call for restraints. Biden didn't. Especially since Biden wasn't some sort of toothless president, we saw how he reacted to the Russian invasion, and how firm he was against Russia. I guess it showed how Ukrainian lives seemed to be worth much more for his administration, whereas the lives of Gaza civilians wasn't even worth a stern condemnation.
code_for_monkey 2y ago
this just the same shitty elitism that everyone hates. Oh those dumb midwesterns, they shouldve voted for our genocide.

by belter 2y ago

lynx97 2y ago

As if Israel was the only reason to not vote for Harris. I dont remember much of her "platform" that actually would be in my interest. Make-believe-minority-politics isn't for the masses.

dudefeliciano 2y ago
to be honest i only remember the supposed $20000 subsidy for first homebuyers, but how was the alternative in your interest, and is it working out as expected?

danknuggetz 2y ago

That's just it though, the democratic and republican parties ran on Israel apartheid maintenance since the end of the second world war. And even in the face of a genocide, the democrats as a national party held the line and refused to consider the crime against humanity unfolding before them. How is electing them supposed to be taken? Should they continue to ignore human rights violations? There was no other way to signal to democrats, as they would rather lose to fascist dictators.

boxed 2y ago
20% of the population of Israel are Palestinians with full rights. Some were killed 7/10. There's a muslim party in the Knesset. Remind me again: how many black parties had representation in apartheid South Africa? You are confused because Israel HAS A apartheid state: the settlements (a small part of Israel in total). But that's not the same as Israel IS A apartheid state. If you can't separate HAS A from IS A you will fail your Object Oriented Programming 101 course, but no one seems to notice it when talking politics :P
- mardifoufs 2y ago
  That's all cool. But it's just standard deflection from the tens of thousands of deaths that the Biden administration directly enabled. And Arabs living in Israel doesn't magically make all the very public statements that Israel made (like that they wanted to level the city to the ground, and displace its population once and for all), repeatedly and throughout the entire Gaza operation just go away.
  - boxed 2y ago
    Israel didn't make those statements. Specific members of radical parties did. Imagine judging a country by their worst people. I bet your country would fare quite badly.
    - mardifoufs 2y ago
      IDF generals did. Who else would you consider credible in representing what the IDF intended to do? Regardless I wasn't trying to make this about Israel's actions. But rather about what Biden (and didn't do) with Israel. He didn't even go as far as condemn the radical parties that you mentioned. Absolutely no red line, or anything. Just complete carte blanche. Again, even Bush or Reagan didn't let Israel do whatever they want with no political repercussions. Israel knew back then that some lines couldn't be crossed without losing American support. With Biden, they did whatever they wanted, said whatever they wanted and took advantage of that.
    - cess11 2y ago
      Likud is a mainstream party in Israel. Their prime minister has been making genocidal and atrocious statements for a very long time. Mainstream television in Israel has been in overdrive to secure popular consent for absolutely obscene crimes for more than one and a half year. 80% of israeli jews in Israel approve of genocidal treatment of palestinians in the Gaza strip in the form of ethnic cleansing, while 14% believe the public statements about this from world leaders to be a distraction and 3% consider it immoral. The broad israeli opposition, i.e. the large demonstrations in Tel Aviv and elsewhere and the politicians that support them, disagree with the government in which order to do things, not on whether the palestinians should be treated genocidally. They want to make the palestinians 'freyer', suckers, by signing any deal that brings israeli prisoners and hostages back and then continuing the genocidal process anyway. Meanwhile the government considers the prisoners and hostages better positioned in captivity, hence why they have been refusing negotiations, and then broke the ceasefire deal they went into earlier this year.

boxed 2y ago

The left refuses to vote for the left because the left isn't crazy and confused enough about jihadis. Checks out.

mardifoufs 2y ago

How is not voting for the administration that enabled and did absolutely nothing to stop the genocide of their relatives or community in Gaza voting against their self interest? You realize that the deaths that happened in Gaza are probably more important than whatever grievances you have against Trump for some people? We are talking about tens of thousands of deaths, directly enabled by the previous administration (not only politically but with direct military shipments of the bombs that killed said people). But Muslim lives are typically completely worthless for a large part of the American population so your comment doesn't really surprise me.

amanaplanacanal 2y ago
You think Trump is going to do better? Looks to me like he is doubling down on it.
- mardifoufs 2y ago
  No, that's not what I said. But that doesn't mean that people would actively vote for the previous administration. They just won't vote at all. And I'm not sure what you mean by doubling down. Biden was basically letting Israel do whatever it wanted to do. Absolutely did nothing for more than a year of bloodshed. Doing anything (like direct discussions with Hamas, bypassing israel) is better than just doing nothing. Even if Trump is a drooling, die hard supporter of Israel. Like if Trump did what Biden let Israel do, I don't think the Muslim population would've been surprised. But even the reddest/war hawks of presidents(Reagan, Bush) never let Israel just have a complete carte blanche. Yet Biden, a supposed ally of the community, did.
  - modo_mario 2y ago
    A supposed ally of the community?
    - mardifoufs 2y ago
      Yes, Democrats have been historically seen as the party that cared the most about Muslim interests in the US. Just like it is the party that traditionally gets the most support from the black community for example. Again, this complete disregard for Muslim life could've been expected from Bush or whatever. But even he wouldn't have let Israel go this far without some sort of faint condemnation or call for restraints. Biden didn't. Especially since Biden wasn't some sort of toothless president, we saw how he reacted to the Russian invasion, and how firm he was against Russia. I guess it showed how Ukrainian lives seemed to be worth much more for his administration, whereas the lives of Gaza civilians wasn't even worth a stern condemnation.

code_for_monkey 2y ago

this just the same shitty elitism that everyone hates. Oh those dumb midwesterns, they shouldve voted for our genocide.