6 ms·

How did it contribute to bringing trump to power?

code_for_monkey 2y ago
it was a huge anchor around the dem's neck, it was a huge conversation during the entire election. They were unable to convince people that Trump would be worse for Gaza than them.
ggm 2y ago
It altered voting intent by both Jewish and Islamic groups in ways which were net negative for Harris. The margin of error in voting was less than the number of votes swayed. All of this is out weighed by the "didn't vote" but democrat didn't vote was larger than before. If this issue stimulated a vote boycott it could have affected democrat voters more.
- dudefeliciano 2y ago
  That argument is not really credible to me, saying that democrats did not vote or voted republican because Harris (and Biden before her) were too favorable towards Israel, ignores the fact that it was glaringly obvious that trump would be even more favorable towards Israel.
  - amanaplanacanal 2y ago
    I have certainly heard people say that they couldn't support Harris because the Biden administration was too close to Israel, so instead didn't vote at all. I know it doesn't make sense to hand the election to somebody objectively worse on an issue they claim to care about, but there it is. I suspect that whole thing was driven by some clever folks trying to get Trump into power.
    - jjice 2y ago
      I have multiple people in my life that followed this mindset as well, to offer some more anecdata. I never got a rationale when asked, which still perplexes me considering these people weren’t fans of the republicans in this past race.
      - hedora 2y ago
        No need to rely on anecdotal evidence: https://www.npr.org/2025/03/03/nx-s1-5249686/arab-muslim-voters-dearborn-hamtramck-trump-gaza https://www.npr.org/2025/03/03/nx-s1-5249686/arab-muslim-vot... Trump was an isolationist in his first term, and his campaign used this to convince muslim voters that he'd continue this in his second term and withdraw support for Israel. Instead, he announced a US funded ethnic cleansing campaign in the region, and the cornerstone of his budget is funding to illegally deploy the US Military in the US. One of their main goals is rounding up "anti-semetics" which seems to mean anyone that's against genocide, especially this exact group of Trump voters. My suspicion is that they fell for it because they're less familiar with US politics, either due to a language barrier or due to being 1st and 2nd generation immigrants without grandparents that remember the McCarthy trials, or the US deporting jews back to Nazi Germany.
      - kelipso 2y ago
        Whether Trump would continue it was an unknown. Whether the Democrats would continue it was a known. And they wanted to punish people who were supporting a genocide. It's a fairly rational choice. My entire family didn't vote because of this and the friendliness with Cheney and neocons.
        dudefeliciano 2y ago
        And how do you feel about the outcome? Do you think you would be happier having voted Harris?
        kelipso 2y ago
        Neutral I suppose. I think it was good that Democrats were not rewarded for supporting a genocide. No, Harris was a bad candidate in many other respects too, and even considering just this issue, I think it was the right decision.
    - code_for_monkey 2y ago
      I think this take comes from a place of western privilege. Biden has always been extremely pro Israel, more than even the average politician here. Biden refused to recognize the ICC war criminal ruling's on Bibi and Israel and also gave them whatever weapons they wanted. It doesnt really make a difference if Trump is more rude and annoying about it, neither of them like Alive Palestinians. I mean, the whole thing went down under the Biden Presidency. If he thought getting those votes was important he couldve shut it down, it wouldnt even be the first time a president did that. Reagan reigned them in all the way in the 80s.
suraci 2y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42793303 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42793303 Here's a quote from the poll: 以下是民意调查中的一段引述： When Biden 2020 voters cast a ballot for someone besides Harris in 2024 were asked “Which one of the following issues was MOST important in deciding your vote?” they selected: 29% - [■■■■■■■■■■] 24% - The economy 12% - Medicare and Social Security 11% - Immigration and border security 10% - Healthcare 9% - Abortion policy 5% - Don’t know
eddythompson80 2y ago
Some fantasy about how millions of leftists voters either boycotted the election or voted for Trump because of Biden’s position on Gaza. Complete nonsense of course, but it’s a popular conspiracy theory among certain democrats circles. It was also funny to see democrats suddenly realizing that Arab Americans vote republican. They always have and they always will. Just like how Latino Americans, and generally most immigrants, will always vote republican too. Arab Americans are very culturally conservative. They would rather see a 100 Gazas than accepting that 2 gay men can get married.
- lynx97 2y ago
  The left pretty much falls into the same trap all around the world. Its almost funny to watch when a leftist realises that immigrants are right-leaning. The typical reaction is to fall back to elitism and claim those immigrants must be stupid somehow.
  - dudefeliciano 2y ago
    Not stupid, just lacking class consciousness
    - lynx97 2y ago
      I would love if the public discourse would allow for more diversity of opinions. Unfortunately, where I come from, the left has simplified the rhetoric to "If you are of a different opinion then we are, you are either badly educated (read, stupid) or a nazi." Unfortunately, this elitist attitude has only contributed to the divide of the people.
      - sofixa 2y ago
        > If you are of a different opinion then we are, you are either badly educated (read, stupid) or a nazi Depending on where you are from, this could absolutely be true, as "elitist" and insulting as it might be. Well, fascist is more appropriate than Nazi because Nazi is superset of fascism with a heavy anti-semitic element, and I'm not aware of many rabidly anti-semitic parties in the mainstream in many countries.

it was a huge anchor around the dem's neck, it was a huge conversation during the entire election. They were unable to convince people that Trump would be worse for Gaza than them.

ggm 2y ago

It altered voting intent by both Jewish and Islamic groups in ways which were net negative for Harris. The margin of error in voting was less than the number of votes swayed. All of this is out weighed by the "didn't vote" but democrat didn't vote was larger than before. If this issue stimulated a vote boycott it could have affected democrat voters more.

dudefeliciano 2y ago
That argument is not really credible to me, saying that democrats did not vote or voted republican because Harris (and Biden before her) were too favorable towards Israel, ignores the fact that it was glaringly obvious that trump would be even more favorable towards Israel.
- amanaplanacanal 2y ago
  I have certainly heard people say that they couldn't support Harris because the Biden administration was too close to Israel, so instead didn't vote at all. I know it doesn't make sense to hand the election to somebody objectively worse on an issue they claim to care about, but there it is. I suspect that whole thing was driven by some clever folks trying to get Trump into power.
  - jjice 2y ago
    I have multiple people in my life that followed this mindset as well, to offer some more anecdata. I never got a rationale when asked, which still perplexes me considering these people weren’t fans of the republicans in this past race.
    - hedora 2y ago
      No need to rely on anecdotal evidence: https://www.npr.org/2025/03/03/nx-s1-5249686/arab-muslim-voters-dearborn-hamtramck-trump-gaza https://www.npr.org/2025/03/03/nx-s1-5249686/arab-muslim-vot... Trump was an isolationist in his first term, and his campaign used this to convince muslim voters that he'd continue this in his second term and withdraw support for Israel. Instead, he announced a US funded ethnic cleansing campaign in the region, and the cornerstone of his budget is funding to illegally deploy the US Military in the US. One of their main goals is rounding up "anti-semetics" which seems to mean anyone that's against genocide, especially this exact group of Trump voters. My suspicion is that they fell for it because they're less familiar with US politics, either due to a language barrier or due to being 1st and 2nd generation immigrants without grandparents that remember the McCarthy trials, or the US deporting jews back to Nazi Germany.
    - kelipso 2y ago
      Whether Trump would continue it was an unknown. Whether the Democrats would continue it was a known. And they wanted to punish people who were supporting a genocide. It's a fairly rational choice. My entire family didn't vote because of this and the friendliness with Cheney and neocons.
      - dudefeliciano 2y ago
        And how do you feel about the outcome? Do you think you would be happier having voted Harris?
        kelipso 2y ago
        Neutral I suppose. I think it was good that Democrats were not rewarded for supporting a genocide. No, Harris was a bad candidate in many other respects too, and even considering just this issue, I think it was the right decision.
  - code_for_monkey 2y ago
    I think this take comes from a place of western privilege. Biden has always been extremely pro Israel, more than even the average politician here. Biden refused to recognize the ICC war criminal ruling's on Bibi and Israel and also gave them whatever weapons they wanted. It doesnt really make a difference if Trump is more rude and annoying about it, neither of them like Alive Palestinians. I mean, the whole thing went down under the Biden Presidency. If he thought getting those votes was important he couldve shut it down, it wouldnt even be the first time a president did that. Reagan reigned them in all the way in the 80s.

suraci 2y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42793303 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42793303 Here's a quote from the poll: 以下是民意调查中的一段引述： When Biden 2020 voters cast a ballot for someone besides Harris in 2024 were asked “Which one of the following issues was MOST important in deciding your vote?” they selected: 29% - [■■■■■■■■■■] 24% - The economy 12% - Medicare and Social Security 11% - Immigration and border security 10% - Healthcare 9% - Abortion policy 5% - Don’t know

eddythompson80 2y ago

Some fantasy about how millions of leftists voters either boycotted the election or voted for Trump because of Biden’s position on Gaza. Complete nonsense of course, but it’s a popular conspiracy theory among certain democrats circles. It was also funny to see democrats suddenly realizing that Arab Americans vote republican. They always have and they always will. Just like how Latino Americans, and generally most immigrants, will always vote republican too. Arab Americans are very culturally conservative. They would rather see a 100 Gazas than accepting that 2 gay men can get married.

lynx97 2y ago
The left pretty much falls into the same trap all around the world. Its almost funny to watch when a leftist realises that immigrants are right-leaning. The typical reaction is to fall back to elitism and claim those immigrants must be stupid somehow.
- dudefeliciano 2y ago
  Not stupid, just lacking class consciousness
  - lynx97 2y ago
    I would love if the public discourse would allow for more diversity of opinions. Unfortunately, where I come from, the left has simplified the rhetoric to "If you are of a different opinion then we are, you are either badly educated (read, stupid) or a nazi." Unfortunately, this elitist attitude has only contributed to the divide of the people.
    - sofixa 2y ago
      > If you are of a different opinion then we are, you are either badly educated (read, stupid) or a nazi Depending on where you are from, this could absolutely be true, as "elitist" and insulting as it might be. Well, fascist is more appropriate than Nazi because Nazi is superset of fascism with a heavy anti-semitic element, and I'm not aware of many rabidly anti-semitic parties in the mainstream in many countries.