2 ms·

EU of 1975 was a different beast than EU of 2025. Back then it was just a treaty for free trade and movement, that's it, now it's bureaucratic monstrosity rulin

EU of 1975 was a different beast than EU of 2025. Back then it was just a treaty for free trade and movement, that's it, now it's bureaucratic monstrosity ruling over its members without the people having representation.

rich_sasha 2y ago
Do you live in a EU country? EU rules are generally good things: rule of law, sane deficit and debt rules etc. And in practice states have a lot of sway. I would say in all areas of governance, post-Brexit the quality of government has decreased, despite throwing off the yoke of EU. And UK has one of the more professional civil service bodies out there.
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago
  >Do you live in a EU country? I do. >EU rules are generally good things: rule of law, sane deficit and debt rules etc Those are all very obscure "rules" And we had such rules even without the EU. > And in practice states have a lot of sway. How do states not do what Ursula v.d. Leyen says? What is their say in the matter? Or more importantly, what's their citizens' say in the matter? Since citizens did not elect her to be their representative. >post-Brexit the quality of government has decreased, That's because their government is incompetent, not because they left the EU.
poisonborz 2y ago
How could 27 independent member states - instead of one federated state, which, by definition, a "bureucratic monstrosity" - compete on the world stage?
chithanh 2y ago
> Back then it was just a treaty for free trade and movement, that's it Not at all. Maybe you are thinking of EFTA, not EU. Or you are just revisionist. EU was never just about free trade. Back when it was founded as ECSC it was about maintaining peace and putting community interest over national interest. Quite soon after the UK joined, environmental regulations took hold that forced it to stop being the "Dirty man of Europe". Brexit opponents rightly feared that this would return after leaving the EU. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/feb/03/brexit-would-return-britain-to-being-dirty-man-of-europe https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/feb/03/brexit-w...
iknowstuff 2y ago
https://elections.europa.eu/en/how-elections-work/ https://elections.europa.eu/en/how-elections-work/

rich_sasha 2y ago

Do you live in a EU country? EU rules are generally good things: rule of law, sane deficit and debt rules etc. And in practice states have a lot of sway. I would say in all areas of governance, post-Brexit the quality of government has decreased, despite throwing off the yoke of EU. And UK has one of the more professional civil service bodies out there.

FirmwareBurner 2y ago
>Do you live in a EU country? I do. >EU rules are generally good things: rule of law, sane deficit and debt rules etc Those are all very obscure "rules" And we had such rules even without the EU. > And in practice states have a lot of sway. How do states not do what Ursula v.d. Leyen says? What is their say in the matter? Or more importantly, what's their citizens' say in the matter? Since citizens did not elect her to be their representative. >post-Brexit the quality of government has decreased, That's because their government is incompetent, not because they left the EU.

poisonborz 2y ago

How could 27 independent member states - instead of one federated state, which, by definition, a "bureucratic monstrosity" - compete on the world stage?

chithanh 2y ago

> Back then it was just a treaty for free trade and movement, that's it Not at all. Maybe you are thinking of EFTA, not EU. Or you are just revisionist. EU was never just about free trade. Back when it was founded as ECSC it was about maintaining peace and putting community interest over national interest. Quite soon after the UK joined, environmental regulations took hold that forced it to stop being the "Dirty man of Europe". Brexit opponents rightly feared that this would return after leaving the EU. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/feb/03/brexit-would-return-britain-to-being-dirty-man-of-europe https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/feb/03/brexit-w...

iknowstuff 2y ago

https://elections.europa.eu/en/how-elections-work/ https://elections.europa.eu/en/how-elections-work/