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The F-35 was designed for export. The F-22 wasn’t and I suspect the F-47 is not either. There are different objectives at work here. The F-35 is technically ca

The F-35 was designed for export. The F-22 wasn’t and I suspect the F-47 is not either. There are different objectives at work here. The F-35 is technically capable but even that is subject to export controls despite being purpose-built for export. A lot of European companies have a large stake in the success of the F-35 in its various versions because they are building it for European customers.

ashoeafoot 2y ago
What european companies built the F35? Especially what part of the software is from Europe ?
- blobbers 2y ago
  BAE systems is responsible for about 15% of production, things from rear fuselage etc. Rolls-Royce builds the LiftSystem for the F-35B variant. Martin-Baker builds the ejection seats for all F-35s. Leonardo builds the wing sets. Rheinmetall is planning to build fuselage for a large number. Kongsberg developed the Joint Strike Missile meant to be carried inside the fuselage to maintain stealth profile while engaging targets at long ranges.
blobbers 2y ago
This is a really interesting 'first thought'. "Designed for export" Not the typical mindset of someone wanting true superiority through military power. Makes you think twice. The F35 is expensive, keeps the defense apparatus going, and ultimately gets paid for by other countries. F22 barely reached production, so F47 will be interesting.
- jandrewrogers 2y ago
  The F-35 is cheap for what it is capable of. F-22 and F-47 are immaterial. And the export F-35 is nerfed to some extent. The unfortunate reality, which the US is exploiting, is that Europe would struggle to produce an equivalent of the nerfed F-35, never mind one that hadn’t been nerfed. As a consequence, the US can sell nerfed F-35s all day. There aren’t many alternatives currently. 4.5 gen aircraft aren’t competitive in a serious conflict and everyone knows it. Even the US has to contend with that reality.
guappa 2y ago
I think at large european industry has more stake in F-35 not being bought, and local planes be used instead.
- jandrewrogers 2y ago
  The internal conflict is that the European planes that exist are nowhere as capable as the F-35. While the European defense contractors may promise a comparable plane, they have a poor track record of delivering such a thing anywhere close to the near future.
  - guappa 2y ago
    I have my doubts that the F-35 is anywhere as capable as advertised.
  - jajko 2y ago
    Well unless we in Europe want to do in direct conflict with US (ie for Greenland), this is mostly irrelevant extra capability. As Ukraine shows, peer conflicts are won by other means, not stealth air superiority over sheep herders with AKs. Some general's wet dream of dogfights in Maverick's style are modern day fantasies. What those planes are used for are just lobbing glide bombs or shooting missiles. Their biggest enemy is on ground. Sure, small radar signature helps massively but that's not enough. Otherwise US would send 500 F-35 into North korean airspace and wipe out most of its military... not going to happen.
    - dgroshev 2y ago
      > As Ukraine shows, peer conflicts are won by other means, not stealth air superiority I don't think you can conclude that when neither of the belligerents has the capability. As Gulf War shows, training and capabilities (including stealth) do enable SEAD/DEAD to an extent that unlocks air superiority.
      - guappa 2y ago
        Perhaps you're not aware that this happened? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incid... USA has air superiority only against 3rd world countries, and even then, history shows that air superiority has never won any war.

ashoeafoot 2y ago

What european companies built the F35? Especially what part of the software is from Europe ?

blobbers 2y ago
BAE systems is responsible for about 15% of production, things from rear fuselage etc. Rolls-Royce builds the LiftSystem for the F-35B variant. Martin-Baker builds the ejection seats for all F-35s. Leonardo builds the wing sets. Rheinmetall is planning to build fuselage for a large number. Kongsberg developed the Joint Strike Missile meant to be carried inside the fuselage to maintain stealth profile while engaging targets at long ranges.

blobbers 2y ago

This is a really interesting 'first thought'. "Designed for export" Not the typical mindset of someone wanting true superiority through military power. Makes you think twice. The F35 is expensive, keeps the defense apparatus going, and ultimately gets paid for by other countries. F22 barely reached production, so F47 will be interesting.

jandrewrogers 2y ago
The F-35 is cheap for what it is capable of. F-22 and F-47 are immaterial. And the export F-35 is nerfed to some extent. The unfortunate reality, which the US is exploiting, is that Europe would struggle to produce an equivalent of the nerfed F-35, never mind one that hadn’t been nerfed. As a consequence, the US can sell nerfed F-35s all day. There aren’t many alternatives currently. 4.5 gen aircraft aren’t competitive in a serious conflict and everyone knows it. Even the US has to contend with that reality.

guappa 2y ago

I think at large european industry has more stake in F-35 not being bought, and local planes be used instead.

jandrewrogers 2y ago
The internal conflict is that the European planes that exist are nowhere as capable as the F-35. While the European defense contractors may promise a comparable plane, they have a poor track record of delivering such a thing anywhere close to the near future.
- guappa 2y ago
  I have my doubts that the F-35 is anywhere as capable as advertised.
- jajko 2y ago
  Well unless we in Europe want to do in direct conflict with US (ie for Greenland), this is mostly irrelevant extra capability. As Ukraine shows, peer conflicts are won by other means, not stealth air superiority over sheep herders with AKs. Some general's wet dream of dogfights in Maverick's style are modern day fantasies. What those planes are used for are just lobbing glide bombs or shooting missiles. Their biggest enemy is on ground. Sure, small radar signature helps massively but that's not enough. Otherwise US would send 500 F-35 into North korean airspace and wipe out most of its military... not going to happen.
  - dgroshev 2y ago
    > As Ukraine shows, peer conflicts are won by other means, not stealth air superiority I don't think you can conclude that when neither of the belligerents has the capability. As Gulf War shows, training and capabilities (including stealth) do enable SEAD/DEAD to an extent that unlocks air superiority.
    - guappa 2y ago
      Perhaps you're not aware that this happened? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incid... USA has air superiority only against 3rd world countries, and even then, history shows that air superiority has never won any war.