6 ms·

Nobody is banning books. Removing inappropriate material from school libraries isn't book banning. Have you seen some of the books that are being removed? That

Nobody is banning books. Removing inappropriate material from school libraries isn't book banning. Have you seen some of the books that are being removed? That books with graphic depictions of aren't appropriate for children is a view perfectly compatible with strong support for freedom of expression.

selfhoster 2y ago
[flagged]
sham1 2y ago
Okay, but counterpoint: why don't these school libraries also remove for example the Bible, a work known for extremely graphic content, eroticism, calls to kill based on one's tribe and doing stuff like working on the Sabbath. It's also a book explicitly meant for indoctrinating children into a given religion, or actually one of two religions! These principles of what is good and age-appropriate for children doesn't seem to be applied consistently.
- spiderfarmer 2y ago
  Because the bible teaches hypocrisy, a very important skill that will help create future leaders.
- milesrout 2y ago
  Because it is an historically important work that is necessary to have some understanding of to understand large parts of history. Its purpose also is not indoctrination or titillation.
- DontchaKnowit 2y ago
  Counterpoint, they do. What public elementary school has copies of the bible? Schools are terrified of anything re ligious.
  - sham1 2y ago
    Well apparently at least public school libraries in Utah's Davis County[0]. To their credit, they did actually ban it due to vulgarity and violence, so at least they were principled in that sense, but then the book was brought back due to backlash. [0]: <https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/21/us/utah-davis-school-district-reversal-bible-school-libraries/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/21/us/utah-davis-school-dist...>
cammikebrown 2y ago
They’re literally banning The Handmaid’s Tale. Not good https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/02/margaret-atwood-handmaids-tale-virginia-book-ban-library-removal/673013/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/02/margaret-a...
- nine_k 2y ago
  Quoting the article: > It’s shunning time in Madison County, Virginia, where the school board recently banished my novel The Handmaid’s Tale from the shelves of the high-school library. Note: a school library. A student can go to a regular library and check out this book, if they are really interested. If you want to see what real book banning looks like, read the list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_books_banned_by_governments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_books_banned_by_govern... This involves removing books from public libraries nationwide (not just school libraries of one county), banning of sale, and sometimes criminalizing and prosecuting private possession of the book. The US is fortunately quite far from such a sorry state.
  - kelseyfrog 2y ago
    Redefining the definition of book banning is not a good look and not a way to win this argument. It's a hole you really don't want to dig.
    - nine_k 2y ago
      The First Amendment specifically speaks about government not limiting free expression. An indeed, school boards are a branch of the government, not a private organization. Their actions may be seen as a real infraction on the First Amendment. Thank you for the correction.
      - milesrout 2y ago
        If the state doesn't limit freedom of expression by choosing what material to teach in schools (which it does) then it doesn't limit it by choosing what material to host in school libraries (which it does). If you want to say removing these books from school libraries is an illegitimate constraint on freedom of expression, then so is the school curriculum. So is public education generally.
relatedtitle 2y ago
But the Bible's ok...
- kelseyfrog 2y ago
  When our book says "There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses," it's ok. When yours say it, it's not. Simple. 1. https://biblehub.com/ezekiel/23-20.htm https://biblehub.com/ezekiel/23-20.htm
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    Some of these translations, I feel, slightly miss the point. Or just went totally off the rails in a couple of cases.
croes 2y ago
Inappropriate by whom? Do you have a list of those books so I can check if I see the same kind of inappropriateness?
- milesrout 2y ago
  Inappropriate according to the school. Schools determine all sorts of things along those lines. They choose what to teach in the first place. Is that in violation of freedom of speech too? School libraries aren't unlimited. They can't contain every possible book. And you wouldn't want them to contain, for example, Playboy magazine or other actual pornographical publications. Schools are obviously allowed to determine what is and isn't appropriate; this is much better, having it decided locally, rather than what, deciding at a national level what is and isn't okay.
  - croes 2y ago
    They could decide "On the Origin of Species" is inappropriate, while the Bible which is full of violence isn't a problem.
girvo 2y ago
> Have you seen some of the books that are being removed? Yes, and most of them do not fit your description in the slightest.
more_corn 2y ago
There’s a coordinated effort to ban books. Harry Potter has been banned. Parents are provided with the template letters to send and are trained to raise objections to books that don’t fit their religious ideology. I’d provide you with links but you could just google it yourself same as I could. Search for “coordinated effort ban books”
raxxorraxor 2y ago
Left political circles did remove books as well. At the time it was mostly argued that the authors are racists or had some form of flaw. The justification was exactly the same at the time. "It isn't censorship, it is just not recommended anymore". Given, that was/is true for many literary expositions as well.

selfhoster 2y ago

[flagged]

sham1 2y ago

Okay, but counterpoint: why don't these school libraries also remove for example the Bible, a work known for extremely graphic content, eroticism, calls to kill based on one's tribe and doing stuff like working on the Sabbath. It's also a book explicitly meant for indoctrinating children into a given religion, or actually one of two religions! These principles of what is good and age-appropriate for children doesn't seem to be applied consistently.

spiderfarmer 2y ago
Because the bible teaches hypocrisy, a very important skill that will help create future leaders.
milesrout 2y ago
Because it is an historically important work that is necessary to have some understanding of to understand large parts of history. Its purpose also is not indoctrination or titillation.
DontchaKnowit 2y ago
Counterpoint, they do. What public elementary school has copies of the bible? Schools are terrified of anything re ligious.
- sham1 2y ago
  Well apparently at least public school libraries in Utah's Davis County[0]. To their credit, they did actually ban it due to vulgarity and violence, so at least they were principled in that sense, but then the book was brought back due to backlash. [0]: <https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/21/us/utah-davis-school-district-reversal-bible-school-libraries/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/21/us/utah-davis-school-dist...>

cammikebrown 2y ago

They’re literally banning The Handmaid’s Tale. Not good https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/02/margaret-atwood-handmaids-tale-virginia-book-ban-library-removal/673013/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/02/margaret-a...

nine_k 2y ago
Quoting the article: > It’s shunning time in Madison County, Virginia, where the school board recently banished my novel The Handmaid’s Tale from the shelves of the high-school library. Note: a school library. A student can go to a regular library and check out this book, if they are really interested. If you want to see what real book banning looks like, read the list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_books_banned_by_governments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_books_banned_by_govern... This involves removing books from public libraries nationwide (not just school libraries of one county), banning of sale, and sometimes criminalizing and prosecuting private possession of the book. The US is fortunately quite far from such a sorry state.
- kelseyfrog 2y ago
  Redefining the definition of book banning is not a good look and not a way to win this argument. It's a hole you really don't want to dig.
  - nine_k 2y ago
    The First Amendment specifically speaks about government not limiting free expression. An indeed, school boards are a branch of the government, not a private organization. Their actions may be seen as a real infraction on the First Amendment. Thank you for the correction.
    - milesrout 2y ago
      If the state doesn't limit freedom of expression by choosing what material to teach in schools (which it does) then it doesn't limit it by choosing what material to host in school libraries (which it does). If you want to say removing these books from school libraries is an illegitimate constraint on freedom of expression, then so is the school curriculum. So is public education generally.

relatedtitle 2y ago

But the Bible's ok...

kelseyfrog 2y ago
When our book says "There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses," it's ok. When yours say it, it's not. Simple. 1. https://biblehub.com/ezekiel/23-20.htm https://biblehub.com/ezekiel/23-20.htm
- rsynnott 2y ago
  Some of these translations, I feel, slightly miss the point. Or just went totally off the rails in a couple of cases.

croes 2y ago

Inappropriate by whom? Do you have a list of those books so I can check if I see the same kind of inappropriateness?

milesrout 2y ago
Inappropriate according to the school. Schools determine all sorts of things along those lines. They choose what to teach in the first place. Is that in violation of freedom of speech too? School libraries aren't unlimited. They can't contain every possible book. And you wouldn't want them to contain, for example, Playboy magazine or other actual pornographical publications. Schools are obviously allowed to determine what is and isn't appropriate; this is much better, having it decided locally, rather than what, deciding at a national level what is and isn't okay.
- croes 2y ago
  They could decide "On the Origin of Species" is inappropriate, while the Bible which is full of violence isn't a problem.

girvo 2y ago

> Have you seen some of the books that are being removed? Yes, and most of them do not fit your description in the slightest.

more_corn 2y ago

There’s a coordinated effort to ban books. Harry Potter has been banned. Parents are provided with the template letters to send and are trained to raise objections to books that don’t fit their religious ideology. I’d provide you with links but you could just google it yourself same as I could. Search for “coordinated effort ban books”

raxxorraxor 2y ago

Left political circles did remove books as well. At the time it was mostly argued that the authors are racists or had some form of flaw. The justification was exactly the same at the time. "It isn't censorship, it is just not recommended anymore". Given, that was/is true for many literary expositions as well.