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If I were to share this article with some loved ones, they would say the press deserves it for all the fake news and unfair treatment of the current administrat

If I were to share this article with some loved ones, they would say the press deserves it for all the fake news and unfair treatment of the current administration. As for the signal aspect, the last discussion I was a part of devolved into “ MI6 did it to make trump’s team look bad”. There is some bogus ‘news’ article to back this up. I don’t know how we got here, but it’s devastating and scary.

selfhoster 2y ago
There's always something scary for those whose team lost the last election.
- semicolon_storm 2y ago
  And treating politics like team sports is the root of the problem
OccamsMirror 2y ago
Stupid people got unfettered access to the internet. Essentially, this is all Steve Job's fault.
- strogonoff 2y ago
  It used to be that you had to mingle with people, and if you had a particularly crazy take on reality there was a dynamic where 80% of people around you IRL would not really take you seriously because respected people didn’t—especially if you were otherwise not appearing to be a socially well-integrated and productive person. This had a chilling effect on extreme views and helped somewhat bring the outliers in, so to speak. Now, even if you never leave your house, cannot hold a job or a relationship, you can find any number of people who share your extreme views, and the more extreme the views the tighter the community (due to justified exclusion IRL). Naturally, it did not take too long for other people exploit that newly found dynamic in context of democracy and use tech to manipulate such people with fringe views for own short-term gains.
- h0l0cube 2y ago
  Hot take: it's a failure of democratic competition. The US doesn't have proportional representation, and it's long maintained a duopoly of two electable parties, and a first-past-the-post system that makes any vote for a 3rd party a waste. This, coupled with the Democrats not fronting up a reformist candidate when they could have (Sanders shot down twice), permitted the only anti-establishment candidate to win, and that happened to be a callous individual that aligns with minds as cruel as his own. (By his own admission, 'the tougher and meaner they are, the better I get along with them'.) It's hard to believe that even die-hard Republican politicians are totally on-board with this reformist agenda that's going to completely decimate the economy, but most certainly, if anyone is winning by the end of it, it will be them. That said, if there's ever another free and fair US election, the Democrats have a real opportunity to put a candidate that can actually deliver remaking the country, but in a way that lifts all boats, and without throwing out hard-won democratic freedoms. But I'm pretty certain they'll just front up another establishment candidate with a progressive face.
  - cutemonster 2y ago
    Makes sense to me. I've been thinking: The US was doomed from the start? Because of the laws that makes it a two party country? It was just a matter of time, and for mass manipulation tools to appear? Are there any more doomed two party countries waiting to go authoritarian / fascist?
    - h0l0cube 2y ago
      Maybe. I'm not sure if FPTP necessarily leads to authoritarianism, but there's a whole bunch of countries that sill use the system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting#Countries_using_FPP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting#Cou... I think, though, that the US won't go full top-down authoritarian, because a large enough portion of the population is armed. Should some kind of coup ever be attempted, it could well spark a civil war – which is still doom, but not a subjugating kind of doom.
      - cutemonster 2y ago
- yubblegum 2y ago
  Actually Steve Jobs, in an interview, strongly argued against a wild west internet and called for "authoritative news organs" iirc. It was on YT a few years ago, may still be there.
deepfriedchokes 2y ago
People believe what they want to believe. Political tribalism is the new religious outlet, since the old religions are failing their purpose. It’s in-group/out-group ego feeding behavior. The psychology of the faithful doesn’t change, since the underlying issue isn’t being addressed; the expression of it changes. Similar to how addiction psychology doesn't go away unless dealt with, addiction psychology just changes how it’s expressed.

selfhoster 2y ago

There's always something scary for those whose team lost the last election.

semicolon_storm 2y ago
And treating politics like team sports is the root of the problem

OccamsMirror 2y ago

Stupid people got unfettered access to the internet. Essentially, this is all Steve Job's fault.

strogonoff 2y ago
It used to be that you had to mingle with people, and if you had a particularly crazy take on reality there was a dynamic where 80% of people around you IRL would not really take you seriously because respected people didn’t—especially if you were otherwise not appearing to be a socially well-integrated and productive person. This had a chilling effect on extreme views and helped somewhat bring the outliers in, so to speak. Now, even if you never leave your house, cannot hold a job or a relationship, you can find any number of people who share your extreme views, and the more extreme the views the tighter the community (due to justified exclusion IRL). Naturally, it did not take too long for other people exploit that newly found dynamic in context of democracy and use tech to manipulate such people with fringe views for own short-term gains.
h0l0cube 2y ago
Hot take: it's a failure of democratic competition. The US doesn't have proportional representation, and it's long maintained a duopoly of two electable parties, and a first-past-the-post system that makes any vote for a 3rd party a waste. This, coupled with the Democrats not fronting up a reformist candidate when they could have (Sanders shot down twice), permitted the only anti-establishment candidate to win, and that happened to be a callous individual that aligns with minds as cruel as his own. (By his own admission, 'the tougher and meaner they are, the better I get along with them'.) It's hard to believe that even die-hard Republican politicians are totally on-board with this reformist agenda that's going to completely decimate the economy, but most certainly, if anyone is winning by the end of it, it will be them. That said, if there's ever another free and fair US election, the Democrats have a real opportunity to put a candidate that can actually deliver remaking the country, but in a way that lifts all boats, and without throwing out hard-won democratic freedoms. But I'm pretty certain they'll just front up another establishment candidate with a progressive face.
- cutemonster 2y ago
  Makes sense to me. I've been thinking: The US was doomed from the start? Because of the laws that makes it a two party country? It was just a matter of time, and for mass manipulation tools to appear? Are there any more doomed two party countries waiting to go authoritarian / fascist?
  - h0l0cube 2y ago
    Maybe. I'm not sure if FPTP necessarily leads to authoritarianism, but there's a whole bunch of countries that sill use the system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting#Countries_using_FPP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting#Cou... I think, though, that the US won't go full top-down authoritarian, because a large enough portion of the population is armed. Should some kind of coup ever be attempted, it could well spark a civil war – which is still doom, but not a subjugating kind of doom.
    - cutemonster 2y ago
yubblegum 2y ago
Actually Steve Jobs, in an interview, strongly argued against a wild west internet and called for "authoritative news organs" iirc. It was on YT a few years ago, may still be there.

deepfriedchokes 2y ago

People believe what they want to believe. Political tribalism is the new religious outlet, since the old religions are failing their purpose. It’s in-group/out-group ego feeding behavior. The psychology of the faithful doesn’t change, since the underlying issue isn’t being addressed; the expression of it changes. Similar to how addiction psychology doesn't go away unless dealt with, addiction psychology just changes how it’s expressed.