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If they were abducted by plainclothes agents and moved across state lines (countermanding a judges lawful order) to a facility where their legal representation

If they were abducted by plainclothes agents and moved across state lines (countermanding a judges lawful order) to a facility where their legal representation has no access they were, without a doubt, disappeared.

kelnos 2y ago
Those actions are shitty, but irrelevant to the argument. If you know where someone is, then they haven't been disappeared.
- Grimblewald 2y ago
  except, relevant people didn't know where she was. It took the Turkish consulate getting involved to even make progress on the matter, and the people who took her said they didn't know where she was when asked by a representative of the Turkish consulate. You don't think that's disappearing someone? It doesn't matter that she was later 'found' after media attention got too hot. It is clear as day what was attempted.
easterncalculus 2y ago
Okay, so ignoring a lawful order is unlawful. It's still not 'disappearing' someone if you know where they are. There are also some people you could argue are being disappeared because their whereabouts aren't published. That's assuming media outlets simply just aren't reporting on their whereabouts to then create that narrative. Surely US media has never done that in recent history. It's all case-by-case and it's clear that ICE is probably breaking the law at a large scale. Still: > without a doubt With HEAVY doubt, lol. At some point redefining buzzwords to engage in political hyperbole goes further than being intellectually dishonest and presses against the rules of this site.
- Grimblewald 2y ago
  "A representative of the Turkish consulate went to ICE offices in Burlington, Massachusetts, and was informed that Ozturk was not in that office and ICE could not provide further information about her whereabouts" From recent CNN publication on the matter. At this stage I have to assume you are arguing in bad faith / shilling for a fascist government. I can only hope you're being paid to do something this debased.

kelnos 2y ago

Those actions are shitty, but irrelevant to the argument. If you know where someone is, then they haven't been disappeared.

Grimblewald 2y ago
except, relevant people didn't know where she was. It took the Turkish consulate getting involved to even make progress on the matter, and the people who took her said they didn't know where she was when asked by a representative of the Turkish consulate. You don't think that's disappearing someone? It doesn't matter that she was later 'found' after media attention got too hot. It is clear as day what was attempted.

easterncalculus 2y ago

Okay, so ignoring a lawful order is unlawful. It's still not 'disappearing' someone if you know where they are. There are also some people you could argue are being disappeared because their whereabouts aren't published. That's assuming media outlets simply just aren't reporting on their whereabouts to then create that narrative. Surely US media has never done that in recent history. It's all case-by-case and it's clear that ICE is probably breaking the law at a large scale. Still: > without a doubt With HEAVY doubt, lol. At some point redefining buzzwords to engage in political hyperbole goes further than being intellectually dishonest and presses against the rules of this site.

Grimblewald 2y ago
"A representative of the Turkish consulate went to ICE offices in Burlington, Massachusetts, and was informed that Ozturk was not in that office and ICE could not provide further information about her whereabouts" From recent CNN publication on the matter. At this stage I have to assume you are arguing in bad faith / shilling for a fascist government. I can only hope you're being paid to do something this debased.