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You act like police powers haven't been continuously expanded for decades despite crime rates dropping regardless of local police presence.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> like police powers haven't been continuously expanded for decades They have also seen periods of reduction, e.g. in the wake of George Floyd (until the abolish the police nutters took the loudspeaker).
- Teever 2y ago
  Can you time line that out for me? I didn't follow those events too closely but what you're saying doesn't really line up with how I remember them.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_reform_in_the_United_States#2010_to_present https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_reform_in_the_United_...
- AngryData 2y ago
  The defund police advocacy wasn't really anything of note until George Floyd. You are saying the same movement that caused a reduction is the exact same movement that stopped the reduction? Also George Floyd was in 2020, a few select cities making some minor moves for a few years doesn't make up for decade after decade after decade of rampant expansion of police powers and armaments across the entire nation. I don't see any significant reduction in our prison population despite the consistent drop in crime, a prison population that dwarfs basically most of the rest of the world's prisoner-to-population ratio other than a few small countries that are either notably oppressed or completely politically unstable.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > You are saying the same movement that caused a reduction is the exact same movement that stopped the reduction? Yes. Though there were two movements, a criminal-justice reform movement that went too far with e.g. bail reform. And “defund the police,” which was mostly attention-seeking behaviour that animated a backlash. > don't see any significant reduction in our prison population They’ve been falling for years [1]. Particularly in state prisons. [1] https://www.prisonpolicy.org/profiles/US.html https://www.prisonpolicy.org/profiles/US.html
    - AngryData 2y ago
      By your own source, yeah incarceration rates dropped for a few years, but are still over 5x as high as it was in the 70s, and is now on a sharp increase again. None of that is encouraging in any way or makes me think police powers are anywhere near a reasonable level or have been curtailed in any meaningful way. There are only 4 countries in the entire world with higher incarceration rates, and being anywhere near places like Rwanda and Turkmenistan is completely absurd.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> like police powers haven't been continuously expanded for decades They have also seen periods of reduction, e.g. in the wake of George Floyd (until the abolish the police nutters took the loudspeaker).

Teever 2y ago
Can you time line that out for me? I didn't follow those events too closely but what you're saying doesn't really line up with how I remember them.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_reform_in_the_United_States#2010_to_present https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_reform_in_the_United_...
AngryData 2y ago
The defund police advocacy wasn't really anything of note until George Floyd. You are saying the same movement that caused a reduction is the exact same movement that stopped the reduction? Also George Floyd was in 2020, a few select cities making some minor moves for a few years doesn't make up for decade after decade after decade of rampant expansion of police powers and armaments across the entire nation. I don't see any significant reduction in our prison population despite the consistent drop in crime, a prison population that dwarfs basically most of the rest of the world's prisoner-to-population ratio other than a few small countries that are either notably oppressed or completely politically unstable.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > You are saying the same movement that caused a reduction is the exact same movement that stopped the reduction? Yes. Though there were two movements, a criminal-justice reform movement that went too far with e.g. bail reform. And “defund the police,” which was mostly attention-seeking behaviour that animated a backlash. > don't see any significant reduction in our prison population They’ve been falling for years [1]. Particularly in state prisons. [1] https://www.prisonpolicy.org/profiles/US.html https://www.prisonpolicy.org/profiles/US.html
  - AngryData 2y ago
    By your own source, yeah incarceration rates dropped for a few years, but are still over 5x as high as it was in the 70s, and is now on a sharp increase again. None of that is encouraging in any way or makes me think police powers are anywhere near a reasonable level or have been curtailed in any meaningful way. There are only 4 countries in the entire world with higher incarceration rates, and being anywhere near places like Rwanda and Turkmenistan is completely absurd.