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Steelman as much as you like, the fact is that health insurance companies really are evil, and the "great replacement" is wingding nonsense. We can't have a sta

Steelman as much as you like, the fact is that health insurance companies really are evil, and the "great replacement" is wingding nonsense. We can't have a standard applies to both real political grievances and fake lunatic ones.

gruez 2y ago
>Steelman as much as you like, the fact is that health insurance companies really are evil, and the "great replacement" is wingding nonsense The point of the steelmaning isn't so "the great replacement" can be declared as "true", it's to point out it's not hard to come up with a slightly revised cause that isn't "wingding nonsense". Sure, it's easy to write off the guy who shoots up a school because of "the great replacement", but what if the next guy is shooting over Biden's immigration policy? Does he get a pass now because "The Biden administration really are evil", on the basis that "they're putting immigrants ahead of Americans" or whatever? >We can't have a standard applies to both real political grievances and fake lunatic ones. I'm so glad that there's a universal standard of what counts as a "real political grievances" that everyone can agree on!
- aaomidi 2y ago
  There isn't a universal standard.
- ElevenLathe 2y ago
  Right, we're not doing politics on a frictionless infinite plane though. At some point, somebody has to make a judgment about the actual content of the complaint. Should we do single payer to prevent violent wingnuts from offing people in broad daylight to the tearful applause of millions? Yes, probably. Should we turn up the horror on the southern border even more to appease your uncle who is complaining about Qanon in the Craigslist "missed connections" section? Probably not. Why? We thought about it and decided the former is a good idea related to a real problem but the latter is just pointless cruelty that doesn't solve anything, not even getting people to stop complaining (since they'll just pick some other made-up problem). If you disagree, you're my political enemy and we have to work it out, hopefully without violence.
Manuel_D 2y ago
United Healthcare had a 6% profit margin last year. They spend something like 85% of revenue on medical care. Health insurance is one of the most regulated industries in the country. What is your proposed change to fix healthcare in the US? A lot of people's understanding of the American health insurance system is closer to one of the "lunatic ones".
- harimau777 2y ago
  I can think of two potential solutions: Single payer healthcare. At least governments are (at least somewhat) accountable to the people. Progressive wealth taxes. It's possible that the only solution is for CEOs to be accountable to the general public. Currently, their wealth insulates them from normal methods of holding them accountable (e.g. loss of social standing, stores refusing to do business with them, etc.) so people turn to methods like shooting them. Perhaps if taxation made them more accountable then people would have other methods available.
  - Manuel_D 2y ago
    How does single payer healthcare solve problems? You point out that this means people can blame the government for poor quality service, but you don't actually explain how this will improve service. The murdered United Healthcare CEO wasn't even all that wealthy. IIRC he had something like 20 million. Way more than the average American, sure, but not even wealthy enough to be impacted by the wealth taxes proposed by Bernie Sanders. Compared to the likes of Musk or Thiel, his wealth was nothing.
    - rickydroll 2y ago
      Most research into the outcomes of single-payer healthcare universal coverage systems shows that they deliver better patient outcomes for less money. I don't know how they give better service, and I'm not familiar with the oversight mechanisms, but the documented results are that they do. Wealth taxes are controversial. I suspect they should be based on a combination of aggregate wealth and financial transaction taxes. IMO, $20 million should have been enough to trigger a wealth tax.

gruez 2y ago

>Steelman as much as you like, the fact is that health insurance companies really are evil, and the "great replacement" is wingding nonsense The point of the steelmaning isn't so "the great replacement" can be declared as "true", it's to point out it's not hard to come up with a slightly revised cause that isn't "wingding nonsense". Sure, it's easy to write off the guy who shoots up a school because of "the great replacement", but what if the next guy is shooting over Biden's immigration policy? Does he get a pass now because "The Biden administration really are evil", on the basis that "they're putting immigrants ahead of Americans" or whatever? >We can't have a standard applies to both real political grievances and fake lunatic ones. I'm so glad that there's a universal standard of what counts as a "real political grievances" that everyone can agree on!

aaomidi 2y ago
There isn't a universal standard.
ElevenLathe 2y ago
Right, we're not doing politics on a frictionless infinite plane though. At some point, somebody has to make a judgment about the actual content of the complaint. Should we do single payer to prevent violent wingnuts from offing people in broad daylight to the tearful applause of millions? Yes, probably. Should we turn up the horror on the southern border even more to appease your uncle who is complaining about Qanon in the Craigslist "missed connections" section? Probably not. Why? We thought about it and decided the former is a good idea related to a real problem but the latter is just pointless cruelty that doesn't solve anything, not even getting people to stop complaining (since they'll just pick some other made-up problem). If you disagree, you're my political enemy and we have to work it out, hopefully without violence.

Manuel_D 2y ago

United Healthcare had a 6% profit margin last year. They spend something like 85% of revenue on medical care. Health insurance is one of the most regulated industries in the country. What is your proposed change to fix healthcare in the US? A lot of people's understanding of the American health insurance system is closer to one of the "lunatic ones".

harimau777 2y ago
I can think of two potential solutions: Single payer healthcare. At least governments are (at least somewhat) accountable to the people. Progressive wealth taxes. It's possible that the only solution is for CEOs to be accountable to the general public. Currently, their wealth insulates them from normal methods of holding them accountable (e.g. loss of social standing, stores refusing to do business with them, etc.) so people turn to methods like shooting them. Perhaps if taxation made them more accountable then people would have other methods available.
- Manuel_D 2y ago
  How does single payer healthcare solve problems? You point out that this means people can blame the government for poor quality service, but you don't actually explain how this will improve service. The murdered United Healthcare CEO wasn't even all that wealthy. IIRC he had something like 20 million. Way more than the average American, sure, but not even wealthy enough to be impacted by the wealth taxes proposed by Bernie Sanders. Compared to the likes of Musk or Thiel, his wealth was nothing.
  - rickydroll 2y ago
    Most research into the outcomes of single-payer healthcare universal coverage systems shows that they deliver better patient outcomes for less money. I don't know how they give better service, and I'm not familiar with the oversight mechanisms, but the documented results are that they do. Wealth taxes are controversial. I suspect they should be based on a combination of aggregate wealth and financial transaction taxes. IMO, $20 million should have been enough to trigger a wealth tax.