5 ms·

Raising Kids to Have an Analog Childhood in a Digital World

135 points by walterbell 2y ago

jajko 2y ago
Hmm, where we live (western Switzerland), this is the default among basically all parents we know. Locals, immigrants, doesn't matter. Not every single thing in same way as article, but cca same ideas and approach. Simply reasonable. Any digital screen is simply too intense stimulus for those little minds and leads to passivity. Human mind is wired internally to create habits -> addictions naturally. And most stuff in those screens is highly addictive, even without going into the topic of brain and soul cancer that all social platforms are in one way or another (and many here are even proud of contributing, then folks wonder how trump can happen repeatedly... the trail in US is long but ie reality shows are one of the stepping stones - stuff mostly marginal here). Also time spent on screen is the time spent alone, no social interaction. Not the best idea for developing mind. Its true that our circles are mostly university-educated folks but not only. Expecting different behavior in families of say car mechanics or prison guard on average. We know one local farmer family and they do same as we do.
- dzhiurgis 2y ago
  Same here in NZ, although I think our peers are biased. Ranging from home-schooled home-birthers with 0 screen time to hybrid schoolers with perhaps 1 hour per week screen time (for toddler age). My kids get more screen time (TV) now in school and daycare as we do not own at home lol.
- kuahyeow 2y ago
  OP does not ban digital screens despite the title. They even play video games ! It's more the en-shittification of the Internet, and other media.
  - jxjnskkzxxhx 2y ago
    They allow the things that they themselves had when they were kids. They just have a fond memory of the past. Just look at the way they style their houses.
kurthr 2y ago
I guess it's nice if you want to have that much control over your kid's time. I wouldn't worry about Tiktok till they're 10 anyway, but by then highschool or homeschool will be the big question. Teaching them to be in control of their own environment and emotions is one thing, but "there's a time and place for everything. It's called college". Maybe building an informational immune system when they're younger will help, or not.
gizajob 2y ago
What’s listed below is too much – ok we’re being analogue and curating more naturalistic play, but restricting play like this is getting a bit draconian. Kids occasionally need to hit each other. Many great artists sometimes have to “destroy” books to get them into a different form where they can be inspired by them. Musicians smash and otherwise derange their instruments. Asking gross questions, even as a way of challenging rules and boundaries, isn’t going to kill anyone. Basquiat, for example, drew on the walls of a small cupboard in his home, a practice that stretched out onto the walls of the city streets, and then onto canvases that now sell for $150,000,000. ———— The playroom itself, in contrast, has only a couple of rules: If the playroom gets too messy to the point it is a tripping hazard, everything stops and they have to clean it up (which really only occurs a few times a week since they are pretty good about managing the space). They cannot destroy or harm their books, they must show them respect, They cannot mark on the walls or furniture, They cannot run in the house or jump off of furniture or towers they build, They cannot hit each other, and They cannot speak harshly to one another, which includes requiring them to say, “Thank you,” “Please”, etc. Throughout your life, your family should be the one rock you depend upon and that you know will always have your back if times get tough. We support each other, we don’t fight or say things in frustration. They cannot talk about gross topics at the dinner table. They have to wait until they are finished eating and allowed to get up, then it’s fair game, again. That way, they are being considerate of other people. P.S. for portfolio sizes between $500,000 and £10,000,000 how is there better advice than “invest in an S&P500 ETF”? P.P.S. What’s wrong with the emotion of frustration? It’s as valid as any other emotion even if you don’t like the way it might manifest.
- techpineapple 2y ago
  I think of myself as relatively laid back, but these rules don’t seem that bad to me, maybe it depends on age? I probably wouldn’t let my <10 year old destroy a book, certainly not from poor impulse control, but I’d probably let me teen due so, particularly for an art project. And hitting people? It may not be totally abnormal to experience a little aggression, but I don’t really think it’s a parents place to let it go either.
  - deleted 2y ago
Animats 2y ago
The house looks like it was staged for sale, not a place anyone lives. If you want grounded kids, and can afford it, get them into horses and ponies. The kids I see around barns all have smartphones, but don't use them for timepass.
- teg4n_ 2y ago
  even the design of the website looks like it should for a funeral home
  - walterbell 2y ago
    > global asset management firm that specializes in helping affluent and high net worth individuals, families, and institutions invest their capital around the world.
    - gerdesj 2y ago
      It's a bit naff criticising design choices and home decor instead of engaging with your arguments and theses about parenthood. I adore humanity in all its guises but some commentards might like to engage brain in first.
  - walrus01 2y ago
    The design of the house screams to me one of two possible things: a) "We are new money people who paid some interior designer to trawl through a bunch of "high end" furniture stores and buy what we think looks like classy, expensive, European style furniture and home decorations" or b) "We bought all this stuff we think looks high-class on credit in an attempt to look impressive, but in reality we are living in a massive pile of debt. As of right now we're doing OK keeping our heads above water". Or some combination of the two. Both of which match with the weird "wealth management" style/presentation of the website. Now this is just my personal bias showing as someone who has architects in the family, and having seen a lot, but people who've come into money and want to buy a bunch of furniture/house decorations to look "high class" will often go a few possible very predictable ways, following some well known tropes. One you've got the "dark oak, heavy wood, victorian/edwardian era looking furniture" motif for cabinets, dining tables, chairs, etc. This will often by seen with weird heavy-framed oil paintings of random things that an American might think would be hanging on the wall in an English country manor house. Anoher possibility you've got is the bright white minimalist glass luxury approach, here's a google image search for "all white glass minimalist luxury living room": https://www.google.com/search?q=all+white+glass+minimalist+living+room+luxury&num=10&client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=7e004d2ac3d123c3&udm=2&biw=1680&bih=941&sxsrf=AHTn8zqRqrqRHM5iCR9zxqaCTXiftkJsrw%3A1743375925109&ei=Nc7pZ4a1Bu79ptQPkpf88Ao&ved=0ahUKEwjGo-e19bKMAxXuvokEHZILH64Q4dUDCBE&uact=5&oq=all+white+glass+minimalist+living+room+luxury&gs_lp=EgNpbWciLWFsbCB3aGl0ZSBnbGFzcyBtaW5pbWFsaXN0IGxpdmluZyByb29tIGx1eHVyeUiHCFDBAli3B3ABeACQAQCYAYUBoAHsBaoBAzAuNrgBA8gBAPgBAZgCAKACAJgDAIgGAZIHAKAHjgI&sclient=img https://www.google.com/search?q=all+white+glass+minimalist+l... A third possibility, and this is more regionally dependent, is you get people who hire an interior designer to make their space look like a luxury/rich peoples' ranch or fly-in fishing lodge. Basically same idea as the main house living room set for the TV show Yellowstone. This will commonly be seen in US western states and vacation-home destinations like Whistler. https://www.google.com/search?num=10&client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=7e004d2ac3d123c3&sxsrf=AHTn8zo7gf6jYW6CGC6sZdG5D1bdco7R8A:1743376193197&q=yellowstone+tv+show+living+room&udm=2&fbs=ABzOT_CWdhQLP1FcmU5B0fn3xuWpA-dk4wpBWOGsoR7DG5zJBpcx8kZB4NRoUjdgt8WwoMt2eLfGlVE3GaT9s2o0rEuu6qO9Jj2mHTJalLxfPtbs8nCnYlAT1xIsZU80b1Q_y2qGz8fkyeEPjUIIdOf8DvgxseuBBDuCbLijLtQvaA8owlc28i1iSc-oDvsmE5kcf4GtJwA3H1b2DZvuUKbUYk81cDUx8A&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjzhdK19rKMAxVPw_ACHYBBGKoQtKgLegQIFhAB&biw=1680&bih=941&dpr=2 https://www.google.com/search?num=10&client=firefox-b-d&sca_... There are also Texan and midwest specific derivatives of the "yellow stone tv show living room set" design approach, which will be seen throughout TX and the midwest.
chongli 2y ago
Question for parents: Is this era, where parents create an entire world for their children, unprecedented in history? I know that parents have sheltered their children to varying degrees throughout history but now it seems way more extreme than it's ever been before. What is going on here? Are we totally rejecting the society we've built for ourselves? Where do we go from here?
- lqet 2y ago
  > I know that parents have sheltered their children to varying degrees throughout history but now it seems way more extreme than it's ever been before. This seems like an upper class issue, and the upper classes (especially aristocracy) have always carefully sheltered their children from the real world. Most parents, myself included, do not have the time to contemplate such questions. They are too busy improvising their way through raising a child.
- ohgr 2y ago
  Not really doing that with my kids. It’s important to nudge them in the right direction but that’s about it. Any absolutist things are not helpful as they build resentment and resistance. Constructive discussions and teaching them to reflect is important. I mean my youngest got into Roblox for a bit (talking weeks). Yeah fine with that, with one eye open. One day someone stole all her shit and her friend was an asshole on the same day. Sat down and talked about virtual items and grinding games and life generally. She never touched it again!
- kortilla 2y ago
  >Is this era, where parents create an entire world for their children, unprecedented in history? I’m not sure exactly what you mean here, but people born in rural areas in the early 1900s were extremely sheltered from an intellectual perspective. With travel being so much more difficult and no TV, things as simple as seeing a picture of New York were mind-blowing.
  - chongli 2y ago
    I’m not sure exactly what you mean here, but people born in rural areas in the early 1900s were extremely sheltered from an intellectual perspective. Right but that was not deliberate. People lived in rural areas and that’s where their kids grew up. They weren’t trying to engineer a rural lifestyle for their kids in order to produce some particular desired outcome.
KaiserPro 2y ago
I mean thats great, but it sounds an awful lot like someone boasting about owning a race horse. Sure stopping your kids having access to youtube and tiktok is a good thing, a great thing even. A soul mirror is a dangerous thing for an impressionable mind. But it feels like none of this post is actually about protecting kids, its more about showing off how cultured the author is. Which is fun when seeing a mishmash of french/english 18th century furniture with incorrectly hung paintings. Look social media is corrosive. There is a reason why the skill of an editor makes or breaks a media company. There is no editor in social media, only you. But to mix up anti-social media with a half baked aesthetic is just bollocks. The irony is, the aesthetic is an analogue, its an analogue of an english/french town house. As remembered by someone who goes "what image does this project" rather than "do I like it" The artwork on the walls is not going to make up for being raised by a succession of nannies, or going to a school surrounded by exceptionally rich and emotionally damaged kids. If you want to raise your kids in an "analogue world" You need to be there. Otherwise you're just outsourcing your kids world view to zuckerberg et al.
- kuahyeow 2y ago
  I think you need to read the OP again. Not just the pictures at the end.
- wingworks 2y ago
  I grew up without TV, computer, Playstation etc in a fairly rural area. It was great most of the time, till I had to go to school. I spent most of my time at home or around the farm, and my 2 other siblings. Very rare to see others outside our fam. And if anyone did visit I would hide from them, not knowing how to interact with them. I never learnt how to socialize, and was very shy as a kid (and still am to a degree). I was even afraid to enter shops, and would only go into ones I had been to before with parents, if I had to. Wasn't till my early 20s that I built up enough courage to enter new stores without intense fear. I started off at a school which I was bullied allot, never learnt anything, eventually was pulled and put into a traditional state school where I did much better (but far behind other kids). Though still bullied a bit, but teachers there actually cared, most bullying didn't last. But once I got to High School (and to a degree primary) having such a different upbringing to all the other kids made it very hard to make any friends. Or have anything to in-common to talk about. It also made parts of learning in school harder, because teachers would talk about xyz pop culture that 99% of kids knew about (e.g. popular movies), and I was just like.. what, I've never seen that. The last 1-2 years of school once I was allowed a computer I had no self control, and binge watched SOO much tv/movies, in an attempt to catch up to kids my age, and have something to talk about. It would take many years to get it mostly under control. I think for my kinda upbringing to work, you need to live somewhere where everyone is doing it too, otherwise it's a painful upbringing for the kids, which effects them for life, in a bad way in my case. Maybe there is a middle ground to take here that would work better, idk.
casey2 2y ago
Having all the neoluddit posts on a tech site, especially one that involve children is very disconcerting. Please don't ruin your child's life based on things you read on the internet. Just go with the flow.
- mangodrunk 2y ago
  Why is it disconcerting and why do you think it’ll ruin a child’s life?
- jhelphenstine 2y ago
  I couldn’t disagree more - the compass bearing for parents ought never be “go with the flow”; that’s akin to “don’t decide, slide”. In both, I hear advocacy for abdicating the highest of responsibilities.
edgarvaldes 2y ago
My attempts to limit my children's screen time all fail when I stage activities for them. But I soon as I try to use my watercolours, my musical instruments or any other passtime of my own, my kids drop the devices and try to do the same activity with me. Its tiresome and charming at the same time.
- gerdesj 2y ago
  "my kids drop the devices and try to do the same activity with me. Its tiresome and charming at the same time." Are you having a laugh? It appears that you have discovered how to describe useful parenting in mildly broken English, with a final flourish designed to set the reader's teeth on edge. In other words: that is how you deal with the little darlings!
  - rodrigodlu 2y ago
    I have the same feeling as Edgar The issue is that is that I need to continuously fight a platform like Roblox that is made for addiction. If I take this completely away from my kid, the exclusion from others kids groups gets real. Some other parents are trying to do more flashy events that makes things worse, since the expectations are higher, while everything still needs to be taken care of by the parents themselves, or paying higher and higher prices to someone preparing these activities like a ultraprocessed food. I told the other parents to build some stable group with a stable activity, like a band or physical RPG meetings. The other parents want me to build everything alone basically. The worse is that instead helping building something, they want to provide feedback only after the fact, that appears to be positive, while the answer to "ok, so help me next time" gets unanswered. They all have weirder and weirder schedules as well, like start these activities during the lunch time or at night, when there's no way the kids will absorb something useful, find they are growing something. The weird schedules are being attributed to work demands, but I don't know, every meeting we have the attention of these other parents are more on taking pictures than engaging with the activity itself. So basically doing flashy activities to post on Instagram is the norm. While outside these flashy scenes the kids are basically on shitty gacha like games. At the end isolating my kid from time to time, even at expense of being considered weirdo by my community, is a desperate measure to make learning skills that are not perception manipulation on social networks, a good bet to teach how to survive the real world (the one that requires a rooftop and food on your table). I recently read the Society of Spectacle books and it never made so much sense. Perception instead substance is all time high around me.
protocolture 2y ago
The issue isnt are these things desirable >They cannot destroy or harm their books, they must show them respect, >They cannot mark on the walls or furniture, >They cannot run in the house or jump off of furniture or towers they build, This sounds great. The issue is, to what length will you go to prevent these things. I feel like parents who have all these rules just got wildly different children.
piyuv 2y ago
Granted I haven’t finished the article yet, but seems like the author and their SO are on their high horses and built a house of cards. The collapse will be magnificent, around the time the kids start school. Sure, be rich enough and you can postpone it by homeschooling or extra special rich kid schools; but sooner or later real world will catch up. Peers with TikTok accounts asking your kids “yo have you seen it? Check it out: skibidi toilet” I’ve read more controlled introductions to real world for kids before and I think that is a better approach. “Tablet bad, analogue good” is just too reductionist.
- mixmastamyk 2y ago
  Delaying is still better than submitting early.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
Yeul 2y ago
I know home schooling is a really big thing in America but it always gave me creepy child abuse vibes.
jxjnskkzxxhx 2y ago
Meh. It seems to me that these people just allow their kids what they themselves had. It's not a principled decision, it's just nostalgia. Example. No tablets, great. But they can have a game boy. What's the difference? The difference is the parents had game boys growing up so they have good memories. Then they rationalize this as "only has two buttons so requires patience". Surely you can find games on a tablet that only have two buttons and require patience...? No, the actual explanation is nostalgia, with an a posteriori rationalisation.
- mixmastamyk 2y ago
  The differences is bigger than you realize. Gameboy did not engage in surveillance, nor engagement algorithms. Solo games can be a bit addictive, but they do have a considerably lower attention limit than social media or multiplayer FOMO.
nedt 2y ago
The kids have either not yet or have recently started school. Of course the shouldn’t have TikTok or anything similar. On the tablet give them something for their age. But remind me in five years of this story and how it went. Pretty sure by then they will be as digital as the average kid.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

135 points by walterbell 2y ago

Hmm, where we live (western Switzerland), this is the default among basically all parents we know. Locals, immigrants, doesn't matter. Not every single thing in same way as article, but cca same ideas and approach. Simply reasonable. Any digital screen is simply too intense stimulus for those little minds and leads to passivity. Human mind is wired internally to create habits -> addictions naturally. And most stuff in those screens is highly addictive, even without going into the topic of brain and soul cancer that all social platforms are in one way or another (and many here are even proud of contributing, then folks wonder how trump can happen repeatedly... the trail in US is long but ie reality shows are one of the stepping stones - stuff mostly marginal here). Also time spent on screen is the time spent alone, no social interaction. Not the best idea for developing mind. Its true that our circles are mostly university-educated folks but not only. Expecting different behavior in families of say car mechanics or prison guard on average. We know one local farmer family and they do same as we do.

dzhiurgis 2y ago
Same here in NZ, although I think our peers are biased. Ranging from home-schooled home-birthers with 0 screen time to hybrid schoolers with perhaps 1 hour per week screen time (for toddler age). My kids get more screen time (TV) now in school and daycare as we do not own at home lol.
kuahyeow 2y ago
OP does not ban digital screens despite the title. They even play video games ! It's more the en-shittification of the Internet, and other media.
- jxjnskkzxxhx 2y ago
  They allow the things that they themselves had when they were kids. They just have a fond memory of the past. Just look at the way they style their houses.

kurthr 2y ago

I guess it's nice if you want to have that much control over your kid's time. I wouldn't worry about Tiktok till they're 10 anyway, but by then highschool or homeschool will be the big question. Teaching them to be in control of their own environment and emotions is one thing, but "there's a time and place for everything. It's called college". Maybe building an informational immune system when they're younger will help, or not.

gizajob 2y ago

What’s listed below is too much – ok we’re being analogue and curating more naturalistic play, but restricting play like this is getting a bit draconian. Kids occasionally need to hit each other. Many great artists sometimes have to “destroy” books to get them into a different form where they can be inspired by them. Musicians smash and otherwise derange their instruments. Asking gross questions, even as a way of challenging rules and boundaries, isn’t going to kill anyone. Basquiat, for example, drew on the walls of a small cupboard in his home, a practice that stretched out onto the walls of the city streets, and then onto canvases that now sell for $150,000,000. ———— The playroom itself, in contrast, has only a couple of rules: If the playroom gets too messy to the point it is a tripping hazard, everything stops and they have to clean it up (which really only occurs a few times a week since they are pretty good about managing the space). They cannot destroy or harm their books, they must show them respect, They cannot mark on the walls or furniture, They cannot run in the house or jump off of furniture or towers they build, They cannot hit each other, and They cannot speak harshly to one another, which includes requiring them to say, “Thank you,” “Please”, etc. Throughout your life, your family should be the one rock you depend upon and that you know will always have your back if times get tough. We support each other, we don’t fight or say things in frustration. They cannot talk about gross topics at the dinner table. They have to wait until they are finished eating and allowed to get up, then it’s fair game, again. That way, they are being considerate of other people. P.S. for portfolio sizes between $500,000 and £10,000,000 how is there better advice than “invest in an S&P500 ETF”? P.P.S. What’s wrong with the emotion of frustration? It’s as valid as any other emotion even if you don’t like the way it might manifest.

techpineapple 2y ago
I think of myself as relatively laid back, but these rules don’t seem that bad to me, maybe it depends on age? I probably wouldn’t let my <10 year old destroy a book, certainly not from poor impulse control, but I’d probably let me teen due so, particularly for an art project. And hitting people? It may not be totally abnormal to experience a little aggression, but I don’t really think it’s a parents place to let it go either.
- deleted 2y ago

Animats 2y ago

The house looks like it was staged for sale, not a place anyone lives. If you want grounded kids, and can afford it, get them into horses and ponies. The kids I see around barns all have smartphones, but don't use them for timepass.

teg4n_ 2y ago
even the design of the website looks like it should for a funeral home
- walterbell 2y ago
  > global asset management firm that specializes in helping affluent and high net worth individuals, families, and institutions invest their capital around the world.
  - gerdesj 2y ago
    It's a bit naff criticising design choices and home decor instead of engaging with your arguments and theses about parenthood. I adore humanity in all its guises but some commentards might like to engage brain in first.
- walrus01 2y ago
  The design of the house screams to me one of two possible things: a) "We are new money people who paid some interior designer to trawl through a bunch of "high end" furniture stores and buy what we think looks like classy, expensive, European style furniture and home decorations" or b) "We bought all this stuff we think looks high-class on credit in an attempt to look impressive, but in reality we are living in a massive pile of debt. As of right now we're doing OK keeping our heads above water". Or some combination of the two. Both of which match with the weird "wealth management" style/presentation of the website. Now this is just my personal bias showing as someone who has architects in the family, and having seen a lot, but people who've come into money and want to buy a bunch of furniture/house decorations to look "high class" will often go a few possible very predictable ways, following some well known tropes. One you've got the "dark oak, heavy wood, victorian/edwardian era looking furniture" motif for cabinets, dining tables, chairs, etc. This will often by seen with weird heavy-framed oil paintings of random things that an American might think would be hanging on the wall in an English country manor house. Anoher possibility you've got is the bright white minimalist glass luxury approach, here's a google image search for "all white glass minimalist luxury living room": https://www.google.com/search?q=all+white+glass+minimalist+living+room+luxury&num=10&client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=7e004d2ac3d123c3&udm=2&biw=1680&bih=941&sxsrf=AHTn8zqRqrqRHM5iCR9zxqaCTXiftkJsrw%3A1743375925109&ei=Nc7pZ4a1Bu79ptQPkpf88Ao&ved=0ahUKEwjGo-e19bKMAxXuvokEHZILH64Q4dUDCBE&uact=5&oq=all+white+glass+minimalist+living+room+luxury&gs_lp=EgNpbWciLWFsbCB3aGl0ZSBnbGFzcyBtaW5pbWFsaXN0IGxpdmluZyByb29tIGx1eHVyeUiHCFDBAli3B3ABeACQAQCYAYUBoAHsBaoBAzAuNrgBA8gBAPgBAZgCAKACAJgDAIgGAZIHAKAHjgI&sclient=img https://www.google.com/search?q=all+white+glass+minimalist+l... A third possibility, and this is more regionally dependent, is you get people who hire an interior designer to make their space look like a luxury/rich peoples' ranch or fly-in fishing lodge. Basically same idea as the main house living room set for the TV show Yellowstone. This will commonly be seen in US western states and vacation-home destinations like Whistler. https://www.google.com/search?num=10&client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=7e004d2ac3d123c3&sxsrf=AHTn8zo7gf6jYW6CGC6sZdG5D1bdco7R8A:1743376193197&q=yellowstone+tv+show+living+room&udm=2&fbs=ABzOT_CWdhQLP1FcmU5B0fn3xuWpA-dk4wpBWOGsoR7DG5zJBpcx8kZB4NRoUjdgt8WwoMt2eLfGlVE3GaT9s2o0rEuu6qO9Jj2mHTJalLxfPtbs8nCnYlAT1xIsZU80b1Q_y2qGz8fkyeEPjUIIdOf8DvgxseuBBDuCbLijLtQvaA8owlc28i1iSc-oDvsmE5kcf4GtJwA3H1b2DZvuUKbUYk81cDUx8A&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjzhdK19rKMAxVPw_ACHYBBGKoQtKgLegQIFhAB&biw=1680&bih=941&dpr=2 https://www.google.com/search?num=10&client=firefox-b-d&sca_... There are also Texan and midwest specific derivatives of the "yellow stone tv show living room set" design approach, which will be seen throughout TX and the midwest.

chongli 2y ago

Question for parents: Is this era, where parents create an entire world for their children, unprecedented in history? I know that parents have sheltered their children to varying degrees throughout history but now it seems way more extreme than it's ever been before. What is going on here? Are we totally rejecting the society we've built for ourselves? Where do we go from here?

lqet 2y ago
> I know that parents have sheltered their children to varying degrees throughout history but now it seems way more extreme than it's ever been before. This seems like an upper class issue, and the upper classes (especially aristocracy) have always carefully sheltered their children from the real world. Most parents, myself included, do not have the time to contemplate such questions. They are too busy improvising their way through raising a child.
ohgr 2y ago
Not really doing that with my kids. It’s important to nudge them in the right direction but that’s about it. Any absolutist things are not helpful as they build resentment and resistance. Constructive discussions and teaching them to reflect is important. I mean my youngest got into Roblox for a bit (talking weeks). Yeah fine with that, with one eye open. One day someone stole all her shit and her friend was an asshole on the same day. Sat down and talked about virtual items and grinding games and life generally. She never touched it again!
kortilla 2y ago
>Is this era, where parents create an entire world for their children, unprecedented in history? I’m not sure exactly what you mean here, but people born in rural areas in the early 1900s were extremely sheltered from an intellectual perspective. With travel being so much more difficult and no TV, things as simple as seeing a picture of New York were mind-blowing.
- chongli 2y ago
  I’m not sure exactly what you mean here, but people born in rural areas in the early 1900s were extremely sheltered from an intellectual perspective. Right but that was not deliberate. People lived in rural areas and that’s where their kids grew up. They weren’t trying to engineer a rural lifestyle for their kids in order to produce some particular desired outcome.

KaiserPro 2y ago

I mean thats great, but it sounds an awful lot like someone boasting about owning a race horse. Sure stopping your kids having access to youtube and tiktok is a good thing, a great thing even. A soul mirror is a dangerous thing for an impressionable mind. But it feels like none of this post is actually about protecting kids, its more about showing off how cultured the author is. Which is fun when seeing a mishmash of french/english 18th century furniture with incorrectly hung paintings. Look social media is corrosive. There is a reason why the skill of an editor makes or breaks a media company. There is no editor in social media, only you. But to mix up anti-social media with a half baked aesthetic is just bollocks. The irony is, the aesthetic is an analogue, its an analogue of an english/french town house. As remembered by someone who goes "what image does this project" rather than "do I like it" The artwork on the walls is not going to make up for being raised by a succession of nannies, or going to a school surrounded by exceptionally rich and emotionally damaged kids. If you want to raise your kids in an "analogue world" You need to be there. Otherwise you're just outsourcing your kids world view to zuckerberg et al.

kuahyeow 2y ago
I think you need to read the OP again. Not just the pictures at the end.
wingworks 2y ago
I grew up without TV, computer, Playstation etc in a fairly rural area. It was great most of the time, till I had to go to school. I spent most of my time at home or around the farm, and my 2 other siblings. Very rare to see others outside our fam. And if anyone did visit I would hide from them, not knowing how to interact with them. I never learnt how to socialize, and was very shy as a kid (and still am to a degree). I was even afraid to enter shops, and would only go into ones I had been to before with parents, if I had to. Wasn't till my early 20s that I built up enough courage to enter new stores without intense fear. I started off at a school which I was bullied allot, never learnt anything, eventually was pulled and put into a traditional state school where I did much better (but far behind other kids). Though still bullied a bit, but teachers there actually cared, most bullying didn't last. But once I got to High School (and to a degree primary) having such a different upbringing to all the other kids made it very hard to make any friends. Or have anything to in-common to talk about. It also made parts of learning in school harder, because teachers would talk about xyz pop culture that 99% of kids knew about (e.g. popular movies), and I was just like.. what, I've never seen that. The last 1-2 years of school once I was allowed a computer I had no self control, and binge watched SOO much tv/movies, in an attempt to catch up to kids my age, and have something to talk about. It would take many years to get it mostly under control. I think for my kinda upbringing to work, you need to live somewhere where everyone is doing it too, otherwise it's a painful upbringing for the kids, which effects them for life, in a bad way in my case. Maybe there is a middle ground to take here that would work better, idk.

casey2 2y ago

Having all the neoluddit posts on a tech site, especially one that involve children is very disconcerting. Please don't ruin your child's life based on things you read on the internet. Just go with the flow.

mangodrunk 2y ago
Why is it disconcerting and why do you think it’ll ruin a child’s life?
jhelphenstine 2y ago
I couldn’t disagree more - the compass bearing for parents ought never be “go with the flow”; that’s akin to “don’t decide, slide”. In both, I hear advocacy for abdicating the highest of responsibilities.

edgarvaldes 2y ago

My attempts to limit my children's screen time all fail when I stage activities for them. But I soon as I try to use my watercolours, my musical instruments or any other passtime of my own, my kids drop the devices and try to do the same activity with me. Its tiresome and charming at the same time.

gerdesj 2y ago
"my kids drop the devices and try to do the same activity with me. Its tiresome and charming at the same time." Are you having a laugh? It appears that you have discovered how to describe useful parenting in mildly broken English, with a final flourish designed to set the reader's teeth on edge. In other words: that is how you deal with the little darlings!
- rodrigodlu 2y ago
  I have the same feeling as Edgar The issue is that is that I need to continuously fight a platform like Roblox that is made for addiction. If I take this completely away from my kid, the exclusion from others kids groups gets real. Some other parents are trying to do more flashy events that makes things worse, since the expectations are higher, while everything still needs to be taken care of by the parents themselves, or paying higher and higher prices to someone preparing these activities like a ultraprocessed food. I told the other parents to build some stable group with a stable activity, like a band or physical RPG meetings. The other parents want me to build everything alone basically. The worse is that instead helping building something, they want to provide feedback only after the fact, that appears to be positive, while the answer to "ok, so help me next time" gets unanswered. They all have weirder and weirder schedules as well, like start these activities during the lunch time or at night, when there's no way the kids will absorb something useful, find they are growing something. The weird schedules are being attributed to work demands, but I don't know, every meeting we have the attention of these other parents are more on taking pictures than engaging with the activity itself. So basically doing flashy activities to post on Instagram is the norm. While outside these flashy scenes the kids are basically on shitty gacha like games. At the end isolating my kid from time to time, even at expense of being considered weirdo by my community, is a desperate measure to make learning skills that are not perception manipulation on social networks, a good bet to teach how to survive the real world (the one that requires a rooftop and food on your table). I recently read the Society of Spectacle books and it never made so much sense. Perception instead substance is all time high around me.

protocolture 2y ago

The issue isnt are these things desirable >They cannot destroy or harm their books, they must show them respect, >They cannot mark on the walls or furniture, >They cannot run in the house or jump off of furniture or towers they build, This sounds great. The issue is, to what length will you go to prevent these things. I feel like parents who have all these rules just got wildly different children.

piyuv 2y ago

Granted I haven’t finished the article yet, but seems like the author and their SO are on their high horses and built a house of cards. The collapse will be magnificent, around the time the kids start school. Sure, be rich enough and you can postpone it by homeschooling or extra special rich kid schools; but sooner or later real world will catch up. Peers with TikTok accounts asking your kids “yo have you seen it? Check it out: skibidi toilet” I’ve read more controlled introductions to real world for kids before and I think that is a better approach. “Tablet bad, analogue good” is just too reductionist.

mixmastamyk 2y ago
Delaying is still better than submitting early.
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Yeul 2y ago

I know home schooling is a really big thing in America but it always gave me creepy child abuse vibes.

jxjnskkzxxhx 2y ago

Meh. It seems to me that these people just allow their kids what they themselves had. It's not a principled decision, it's just nostalgia. Example. No tablets, great. But they can have a game boy. What's the difference? The difference is the parents had game boys growing up so they have good memories. Then they rationalize this as "only has two buttons so requires patience". Surely you can find games on a tablet that only have two buttons and require patience...? No, the actual explanation is nostalgia, with an a posteriori rationalisation.

mixmastamyk 2y ago
The differences is bigger than you realize. Gameboy did not engage in surveillance, nor engagement algorithms. Solo games can be a bit addictive, but they do have a considerably lower attention limit than social media or multiplayer FOMO.

nedt 2y ago

The kids have either not yet or have recently started school. Of course the shouldn’t have TikTok or anything similar. On the tablet give them something for their age. But remind me in five years of this story and how it went. Pretty sure by then they will be as digital as the average kid.

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