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> never having heard not to put a battery in checked luggage Maybe not conventional batteries, but you've been disallowed from putting lithium batteries in che

> never having heard not to put a battery in checked luggage Maybe not conventional batteries, but you've been disallowed from putting lithium batteries in checked luggage for at least 16 years. I remember being dragged into the bowels of an airport by security to open my checked bag because I'd forgotten a device in it. That was in 2009. When you check in bags they ask you to make sure there aren't any rechargeable devices or battery packs in them and this has also been going on for a long time.

sroussey 2y ago
I still send my AirTags in checked luggage. But they are small!
- ghaff 2y ago
  Checked baggage is actually one of the better use cases for AirTags.
- josephg 2y ago
  AirTags also don’t use rechargeable lithium batteries.
  - LoganDark 2y ago
    Aren't non-rechargeable batteries still at least a little dangerous, though?
    - Zak 2y ago
      They're more dangerous. The reason lithium-metal batteries are "non-rechargeable" isn't that recharging them doesn't work; it's that they have an unacceptable probability of exploding during the process. Other forms of electrical, thermal, or mechanical abuse can have similarly spicy results.
  - Zak 2y ago
    Spare non-rechargeable lithium batteries are also forbidden in checked luggage[0]. AirTags are allowed because the battery is installed in a device, though Lufthansa briefly tried to argue otherwise after some bad press involving passengers finding their own lost bags[1]. [0] https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/lithium-batteries https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/lithium-batteries [1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/lufthansa-awkwardly-abandons-airtag-ban-after-baffling-face-plant/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/lufthansa-awkwardly-...
- pacificmint 2y ago
  When people say “Lithium batteries” in this context, they mean lithium-ion rechargeable batteries. AirTags contain lithium primary batteries, which are a totally different thing (other than both containing the element lithium). Lithium primary batteries present no more a risk than alkaline AAs. Probably less.
  - LorenPechtel 2y ago
    Last time I ordered some lithium primary batteries from Amazon it came with the lithium sticker. I didn't look into the rules. Lithium poses two risks: 1) The internal resistance is low enough that if it's shorted it can go into thermal runaway. This is the risk they had in mind when saying no loose cells (but note that cells merely need to be securely contained, not specifically in a device.) 2) Secondary cells can grow whiskers inside the cell. If a whisker grows just wrong it can short the cell from inside and drive it into runaway. This is the risk that they are worried about here--and it's a legitimate risk, it's brought a plane down. The reason the rules are different in the passenger compartment is that while there's nothing on board an airplane that can fight a lithium fire it's generally a small, weak fire (the big e-bike batteries that have been in some rather dramatic videos aren't allowed) that humans can generally keep from turning into a big fire. But if nobody can fight the fire you have a big problem. Hence why lost phones are treated very differently--they could have fallen someplace where the fire wouldn't be fought.
  - alwayslikethis 2y ago
    They are more dangerous. They contain significant amounts of lithium metal, the thing that bursts into flames when in contact with water. There are similar restrictions on them for air travel.
    - echoangle 2y ago
      > They contain significant amounts of lithium metal, the thing that bursts into flames when in contact with water. How does that tell you that they are dangerous? The danger with rechargeable Lithium batteries isn't that they contact water and begin to burn.
ghaff 2y ago
Yeah, I’ve been aware of this for ages. That said I’m sure lithium batteries in checked luggage are super-common in things like electric razors and tooth brushes and a ton of other things we never think about. It’s like airplane mode. How many cellphones on a given flight are actually in airplane mode?
- lxgr 2y ago
  A phone not in airplane mode and a high capacity lithium battery are not comparable at all. Airplane mode is largely pseudoscience/an abundance of caution/solving a different problem than a safety one. There's approximately zero chance of a phone interfering with avionics, especially modern ones, with their very low transmission power. Supposedly the real reason has always been that mobile network operators don't like the interference high-altitude phones can cause: They're in view of potentially many base stations, some of which might be using the same frequency (which is possible since far-away regular-altitude phones are below the radio horizon and therefore not an issue). Some evidence for this theory: The "mobile phone ban" is an FCC regulation, not an FAA one, and many (non-US) airlines have been offering on-board microcells for decades without any issues.
  - I_dream_of_Gen1 2y ago
    "the real reason has always been that mobile network operators don't like the interference high-altitude phones can cause: They're in view of potentially many base stations". This makes zero sense: the aircraft is on the ground and not moving when the ban is put in place. The ban is removed at altitude, when, you say, that the phones are potentially 'in view' of many 'cell towers' (not base stations). In fact, the plane is essentially a Faraday cage at altitude, and a phone has almost zero chance of connecting to a tower, even shoved into a window pocket.
    - lxgr 2y ago
      > The ban is removed at altitude Not in the US, where it applies throughout the flight. And at least in Europe, the ban is due to the risk of distraction/disorientation in case of an emergency, in my experience. > the plane is essentially a Faraday cage at altitude, and a phone has almost zero chance of connecting to a tower Counterpoint: I have a whole collection of “welcome to <place>, your roaming charges will be <exorbitant>” text messages on my phone from countries I’ve only ever overflown at 30k feet. This is from flights that do permit in-flight phone usage, but I believe my network has no roaming agreement with the microcell operator, so it keeps scanning and sometimes catches a bidirectional link to some long-range tower. (They’re specifically optimized for that in the North Sea and Atlantic for fishing boats, as far as I know, so for regular modern towers it’s probably less likely, but that separation hasn’t always existed.)
therein 2y ago
> When you check in bags they ask you to make sure there aren't any rechargeable devices or battery packs in them and this has also been going on for a long time. Literally never once have I been asked that and I flew internationally 6 times a year for more than 5 years. The only thing I can think of is maybe you look like the kind of person that would have rechargeable devices and battery packs in his luggage? :)
- grepfru_it 2y ago
  Before you accept your plane tickets you get asked question about illegal hazards you are flying with. Lithium batteries are clearly noted. Maybe you are just skipping that notice because you assume you are not a hazard? :) This definitely happens stateside. Usually during check-in
  - genewitch 2y ago
    They had to pull my checked bags once because I couldn't find an 18650 when they asked me about carry on batteries for a puddle jumper the last time I flew, which was nearly a decade ago at this point. They definitely care. The passengers are also supposed to care. People who don't care are the reason I don't fly anymore.
- TrainedMonkey 2y ago
  I see a warning about rechargeable batteries in checked in luggage almost every time I check into a flight. I wonder what explains our difference of experiences. Maybe it's the fact that I mostly do electronic checkins vs just showing up at luggage drop off.
  - girvo 2y ago
    Luggage drop-off asks the same question, here in Australia anyway
  - kiwijamo 2y ago
    I also see this every time I check in for my Air NZ and Jetstar flights here in New Zealand. But I suspect like many I just by habit press 'No, I don't have any hazardous things to declare.' to move to the next stage of the check in process as quickly as possible! There are also signs and stickers on check in desks for those checking in manually -- but not sure how good the agents are at bringing people's attention to that.
Reason077 2y ago
> “you've been disallowed from putting lithium batteries in checked luggage for at least 16 years.” This rule only applies to loose (spare) Li-ion batteries, not batteries which are installed in a device. Batteries over 160 Wh (in some cases, 100 Wh) are banned whether they’re in a device or not, but that’s far bigger than any phone battery: an iPhone 16 Pro Max battery is about 16 Wh, and typical laptop batteries are around 60 Wh. IATA Li-ion battery fact sheet: https://www.iata.org/en/iata-repository/pressroom/fact-sheets/fact-sheet-lithium-batteries/ https://www.iata.org/en/iata-repository/pressroom/fact-sheet...
- SllX 2y ago
  Notably the 16” MacBook Pro (every model since 2019) goes right up to the 100 Wh limit.
  - em3rgent0rdr 2y ago
    For comparison, 100 Wh is 360,000 joules, which is just under either the energy released by explosion of 100 grams of TNT, or the kinetic energy of a small car at highway speeds, or the kinetic energy of 1 gram meteor hitting Earth.[1] (Sorry, I've never been a fan of the "Wh" unit and so wanted to put that total energy into layman terms.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(energy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(energy)
    - supermatt 2y ago
      Or a McDonalds medium fries? EDIT: doh, just realised you were comparing with other forms of damage. That said, I think its truly amazing that a snack has the same energy as a nasty car crash. Mind blown.
      - HPsquared 2y ago
        That is, 100 Wh = 86 kcal. Enough energy to heat 1 kg of water by 86°C (or 86 kg of water by 1°C).
      - 2y ago
LorenPechtel 2y ago
Yup, it's happened to me. I had put the battery in my daypack while we were there. I thought it had gone back in my laptop bag for the flight--nope, it was buried in the daypack. PVG security caught it.

sroussey 2y ago

I still send my AirTags in checked luggage. But they are small!

ghaff 2y ago
Checked baggage is actually one of the better use cases for AirTags.
josephg 2y ago
AirTags also don’t use rechargeable lithium batteries.
- LoganDark 2y ago
  Aren't non-rechargeable batteries still at least a little dangerous, though?
  - Zak 2y ago
    They're more dangerous. The reason lithium-metal batteries are "non-rechargeable" isn't that recharging them doesn't work; it's that they have an unacceptable probability of exploding during the process. Other forms of electrical, thermal, or mechanical abuse can have similarly spicy results.
- Zak 2y ago
  Spare non-rechargeable lithium batteries are also forbidden in checked luggage[0]. AirTags are allowed because the battery is installed in a device, though Lufthansa briefly tried to argue otherwise after some bad press involving passengers finding their own lost bags[1]. [0] https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/lithium-batteries https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/lithium-batteries [1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/lufthansa-awkwardly-abandons-airtag-ban-after-baffling-face-plant/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/lufthansa-awkwardly-...
pacificmint 2y ago
When people say “Lithium batteries” in this context, they mean lithium-ion rechargeable batteries. AirTags contain lithium primary batteries, which are a totally different thing (other than both containing the element lithium). Lithium primary batteries present no more a risk than alkaline AAs. Probably less.
- LorenPechtel 2y ago
  Last time I ordered some lithium primary batteries from Amazon it came with the lithium sticker. I didn't look into the rules. Lithium poses two risks: 1) The internal resistance is low enough that if it's shorted it can go into thermal runaway. This is the risk they had in mind when saying no loose cells (but note that cells merely need to be securely contained, not specifically in a device.) 2) Secondary cells can grow whiskers inside the cell. If a whisker grows just wrong it can short the cell from inside and drive it into runaway. This is the risk that they are worried about here--and it's a legitimate risk, it's brought a plane down. The reason the rules are different in the passenger compartment is that while there's nothing on board an airplane that can fight a lithium fire it's generally a small, weak fire (the big e-bike batteries that have been in some rather dramatic videos aren't allowed) that humans can generally keep from turning into a big fire. But if nobody can fight the fire you have a big problem. Hence why lost phones are treated very differently--they could have fallen someplace where the fire wouldn't be fought.
- alwayslikethis 2y ago
  They are more dangerous. They contain significant amounts of lithium metal, the thing that bursts into flames when in contact with water. There are similar restrictions on them for air travel.
  - echoangle 2y ago
    > They contain significant amounts of lithium metal, the thing that bursts into flames when in contact with water. How does that tell you that they are dangerous? The danger with rechargeable Lithium batteries isn't that they contact water and begin to burn.

ghaff 2y ago

Yeah, I’ve been aware of this for ages. That said I’m sure lithium batteries in checked luggage are super-common in things like electric razors and tooth brushes and a ton of other things we never think about. It’s like airplane mode. How many cellphones on a given flight are actually in airplane mode?

lxgr 2y ago
A phone not in airplane mode and a high capacity lithium battery are not comparable at all. Airplane mode is largely pseudoscience/an abundance of caution/solving a different problem than a safety one. There's approximately zero chance of a phone interfering with avionics, especially modern ones, with their very low transmission power. Supposedly the real reason has always been that mobile network operators don't like the interference high-altitude phones can cause: They're in view of potentially many base stations, some of which might be using the same frequency (which is possible since far-away regular-altitude phones are below the radio horizon and therefore not an issue). Some evidence for this theory: The "mobile phone ban" is an FCC regulation, not an FAA one, and many (non-US) airlines have been offering on-board microcells for decades without any issues.
- I_dream_of_Gen1 2y ago
  "the real reason has always been that mobile network operators don't like the interference high-altitude phones can cause: They're in view of potentially many base stations". This makes zero sense: the aircraft is on the ground and not moving when the ban is put in place. The ban is removed at altitude, when, you say, that the phones are potentially 'in view' of many 'cell towers' (not base stations). In fact, the plane is essentially a Faraday cage at altitude, and a phone has almost zero chance of connecting to a tower, even shoved into a window pocket.
  - lxgr 2y ago
    > The ban is removed at altitude Not in the US, where it applies throughout the flight. And at least in Europe, the ban is due to the risk of distraction/disorientation in case of an emergency, in my experience. > the plane is essentially a Faraday cage at altitude, and a phone has almost zero chance of connecting to a tower Counterpoint: I have a whole collection of “welcome to <place>, your roaming charges will be <exorbitant>” text messages on my phone from countries I’ve only ever overflown at 30k feet. This is from flights that do permit in-flight phone usage, but I believe my network has no roaming agreement with the microcell operator, so it keeps scanning and sometimes catches a bidirectional link to some long-range tower. (They’re specifically optimized for that in the North Sea and Atlantic for fishing boats, as far as I know, so for regular modern towers it’s probably less likely, but that separation hasn’t always existed.)

therein 2y ago

> When you check in bags they ask you to make sure there aren't any rechargeable devices or battery packs in them and this has also been going on for a long time. Literally never once have I been asked that and I flew internationally 6 times a year for more than 5 years. The only thing I can think of is maybe you look like the kind of person that would have rechargeable devices and battery packs in his luggage? :)

grepfru_it 2y ago
Before you accept your plane tickets you get asked question about illegal hazards you are flying with. Lithium batteries are clearly noted. Maybe you are just skipping that notice because you assume you are not a hazard? :) This definitely happens stateside. Usually during check-in
- genewitch 2y ago
  They had to pull my checked bags once because I couldn't find an 18650 when they asked me about carry on batteries for a puddle jumper the last time I flew, which was nearly a decade ago at this point. They definitely care. The passengers are also supposed to care. People who don't care are the reason I don't fly anymore.
TrainedMonkey 2y ago
I see a warning about rechargeable batteries in checked in luggage almost every time I check into a flight. I wonder what explains our difference of experiences. Maybe it's the fact that I mostly do electronic checkins vs just showing up at luggage drop off.
- girvo 2y ago
  Luggage drop-off asks the same question, here in Australia anyway
- kiwijamo 2y ago
  I also see this every time I check in for my Air NZ and Jetstar flights here in New Zealand. But I suspect like many I just by habit press 'No, I don't have any hazardous things to declare.' to move to the next stage of the check in process as quickly as possible! There are also signs and stickers on check in desks for those checking in manually -- but not sure how good the agents are at bringing people's attention to that.

Reason077 2y ago

> “you've been disallowed from putting lithium batteries in checked luggage for at least 16 years.” This rule only applies to loose (spare) Li-ion batteries, not batteries which are installed in a device. Batteries over 160 Wh (in some cases, 100 Wh) are banned whether they’re in a device or not, but that’s far bigger than any phone battery: an iPhone 16 Pro Max battery is about 16 Wh, and typical laptop batteries are around 60 Wh. IATA Li-ion battery fact sheet: https://www.iata.org/en/iata-repository/pressroom/fact-sheets/fact-sheet-lithium-batteries/ https://www.iata.org/en/iata-repository/pressroom/fact-sheet...

SllX 2y ago
Notably the 16” MacBook Pro (every model since 2019) goes right up to the 100 Wh limit.
- em3rgent0rdr 2y ago
  For comparison, 100 Wh is 360,000 joules, which is just under either the energy released by explosion of 100 grams of TNT, or the kinetic energy of a small car at highway speeds, or the kinetic energy of 1 gram meteor hitting Earth.[1] (Sorry, I've never been a fan of the "Wh" unit and so wanted to put that total energy into layman terms.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(energy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(energy)
  - supermatt 2y ago
    Or a McDonalds medium fries? EDIT: doh, just realised you were comparing with other forms of damage. That said, I think its truly amazing that a snack has the same energy as a nasty car crash. Mind blown.
    - HPsquared 2y ago
      That is, 100 Wh = 86 kcal. Enough energy to heat 1 kg of water by 86°C (or 86 kg of water by 1°C).
    - 2y ago

LorenPechtel 2y ago

Yup, it's happened to me. I had put the battery in my daypack while we were there. I thought it had gone back in my laptop bag for the flight--nope, it was buried in the daypack. PVG security caught it.