6 ms·

Why is this stuff discovered again? Agile not working not because your doing it wrong. It just not working. All agile is cargo cult agile.

lazystone 2y ago
"Agile" works, but "Agile" is not a set of rules to follow. "Agile" is a chain of conscious decisions made by a team. "We have sprints" is not "Agile". Neither "we use Jira", nor "we have retros". Term "Agile" has been stolen from us, butchered and it's dead body had been turned to scarecrow. And now all those "agile couches", "agile offices", "certified scrum masters" are dancing around it's corpse. But there are some of us, who worked in truly agile team, we witnessed it in it's glory. We remember when it was alive. If you worship Cargo Cult, you aren't doing "Agile" despite the name. Period.
- Tractor8626 2y ago
  Claiming what X works. Never explaining what exactly this X is.
vanschelven 2y ago
I know "agile" (we were on the XP flavor) was working for the teams I worked on in the early 2000s, so I'm sure not _all_ agile is cargo-culting... but it seems that the things that made agile work did not survive broader adoption. Which seems like a contradiction, but really isn't: The agile I knew attracted a certain kind of people, and when those people worked together, it worked. But when agile became the thing everybody does, the dynamic of attracting the (perhaps few?) people that actually made agile work was lost.
theragra 2y ago
And what does work? Agile certainly works, I see how people around me are finishing projects and customers are happy.
- Tractor8626 2y ago
  Management works. Are you sure people finishing projects thanks to agile and not despite agile?
  - theragra 2y ago
    I am not sure how management can be compared to agile. It is apples vs oranges. Management often means intolerable beraucracy, snail pace and huge amount of useless reports and other never read docs. Agile is just an approach that tries to minimize all that. Instead, stakeholders should agree on the best way they should work. They are using tools and processes that help, not encumber.
    - Tractor8626 2y ago
      > Management often means intolerable beraucracy, snail pace and huge amount of useless reports and other never read docs. Only according to sellers of agile-snake-oil.

lazystone 2y ago

"Agile" works, but "Agile" is not a set of rules to follow. "Agile" is a chain of conscious decisions made by a team. "We have sprints" is not "Agile". Neither "we use Jira", nor "we have retros". Term "Agile" has been stolen from us, butchered and it's dead body had been turned to scarecrow. And now all those "agile couches", "agile offices", "certified scrum masters" are dancing around it's corpse. But there are some of us, who worked in truly agile team, we witnessed it in it's glory. We remember when it was alive. If you worship Cargo Cult, you aren't doing "Agile" despite the name. Period.

Tractor8626 2y ago
Claiming what X works. Never explaining what exactly this X is.

vanschelven 2y ago

I know "agile" (we were on the XP flavor) was working for the teams I worked on in the early 2000s, so I'm sure not _all_ agile is cargo-culting... but it seems that the things that made agile work did not survive broader adoption. Which seems like a contradiction, but really isn't: The agile I knew attracted a certain kind of people, and when those people worked together, it worked. But when agile became the thing everybody does, the dynamic of attracting the (perhaps few?) people that actually made agile work was lost.

theragra 2y ago

And what does work? Agile certainly works, I see how people around me are finishing projects and customers are happy.

Tractor8626 2y ago
Management works. Are you sure people finishing projects thanks to agile and not despite agile?
- theragra 2y ago
  I am not sure how management can be compared to agile. It is apples vs oranges. Management often means intolerable beraucracy, snail pace and huge amount of useless reports and other never read docs. Agile is just an approach that tries to minimize all that. Instead, stakeholders should agree on the best way they should work. They are using tools and processes that help, not encumber.
  - Tractor8626 2y ago
    > Management often means intolerable beraucracy, snail pace and huge amount of useless reports and other never read docs. Only according to sellers of agile-snake-oil.