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Interestingly enough, it looks like his assignment was probably related to this: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/07/nyregion/for-women-in-street-stops-deeper-hu

Interestingly enough, it looks like his assignment was probably related to this: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/07/nyregion/for-women-in-street-stops-deeper-humiliation.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/07/nyregion/for-women-in-stre... stop-and-frisk is a significant issue in NYC. Ostensibly the authority is granted as part of a larger effort to eliminate firearms on the street. It resulted in nearly 700K stops in 2011. That got 800 some-odd guns off the streets of the city at an unknown cost to goodwill (given most people stopped-and-frisked are Black or Latino). On the flip side there is no doubt that stop-and-frisk has contributed to one of the highest rates of marijuana arrests in the country for NYC. Odd, given New York state effectively decriminalized small amounts of weed in the 70's. It's only through a loophole that states publicly displaying the drug makes possession an arrestable offense and it's been reported that the NYPD consistently instructs people in stop-and-frisk situations to remove any drugs from their pocket and present it for inspection prior to frisking, making it publicly displayed. Gov. Cuomo called on NY state legislature this year to eliminate the public display issue, but nothing happened before the end of the January-June session. edit: added "small amounts"

daenz 14y ago
> it's been reported that the NYPD consistently instructs people in stop-and-frisk situations to remove any drugs from their pocket and present it for inspection prior to frisking, making it publicly displayed. That's really interesting. Are you saying that if an officer finds marijuana, instructs you to remove it, and you refuse, you can't be arrested because you didn't display it publicly?
- rhizome 14y ago
  No, they say "empty your pockets," and if there is pot there, they charge you not only with possession, but display as well.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
    This is one of those things where I say "isn't that illegal?" And then realise it's the people enforcing the law who are breaking it. Even if it isn't illegal, no chance they'd enforce that.
    - Symmetry 14y ago
      Judges don't always stand for stuff like this, though I assume most of the people caught in this manner are leaned on until they plea bargain. A while ago a family was flying out to visit their home in Africa and carrying a large amount of cash. When asked how much they had they said something like "About $4,000" and the agent they were talking to said that the estimate was fine and instructed them to write that down. When they got further in, though, another agent insisted that the money be counted and when it came out a bit higher than was written down used this as an excuse to seize the money. After a lengthy court battle, though, the family got the money back.
      - jlgreco 14y ago
        I wonder how much money they spent trying to get their money back..
        Symmetry 14y ago
        I don't know, but apparently I misremembered the amount of money. Here's the ruling from the judge: http://www.volokh.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/35131.pdf http://www.volokh.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/35131.pdf
      - danielweber 14y ago
        You probably know this already, but The Agitator has been doing a bunch of posts about seizing money recently. The vast majority are taken from minorities, and sometimes the cops threaten to take any children you are travelling with away from you if the money isn't forfeited on the spot. I'm probably getting some details wrong so check on him for details.
  - look_lookatme 14y ago
    Exactly. On top of that, police are not required to tell you the truth, so they can claim they will only ticket you and so forth in an attempt to you get the drugs out in the open.
    - jrockway 14y ago
      "I don't consent to this search."
      - maratd 14y ago
        The article is about a guy who got the shit beaten out of him for trying to assert his constitutional rights ...
        Karunamon 14y ago
        I'd accept getting the shit beaten out of me (really!) for the resulting multimillion dollar payout. A few minutes of pain in exchange for being financially secure the rest of my life? Sign me up.
        maratd 14y ago
        I had that same opportunity and I passed on it. It's dirty money. I prefer to earn the money I have. It gives me satisfaction when I use it. With the government, you know that money came from some hardworking individual who paid his taxes ... and the only reason you have it is because some corrupt piece of garbage was drawing a salary on that money and you ended up being his victim. Not how I want to live my life and certainly not something I want to be reminded of every time I take out my wallet.
        jrockway 14y ago
        My point was: if you're carrying illegal drugs and are selected for a random search, don't consent. If you're not carrying illegal drugs, it's really up to you.
- Lost_BiomedE 14y ago
  From my understanding, it is against the law to disobey a lawful order. I have been told that the way out is to ask explicitly 'Is that an order?', as you can not be charged due to following a lawful order. Maybe someone can confirm this, as at best, I have hearsay. Either way, 'you can beat the rap but not the ride'.
chernevik 14y ago
They stop and frisk 47,000 women. They make 4000 arrests and find 59 guns. I daresay the arrests are mostly low-grade possession with some contempt-of-cop thrown in. At _best_ their hit rate is under 10%. How on God's green earth are these searches "reasonable" under the Constitution? I'm not a big one for "racism" or class analysis but there is no, no way a cop would try this on me, middle-class white guy, walking down the street. If he did I'd give him grief. I'd end up complying, but I'd look him in the eye and say "I've got your badge number. I've got your partner's badge number. Go ahead, take me in. This shit is writing up and you are going to be in paperwork on this for the next six months. I'll call my lawyer, you call your union rep 'cause he'll be working this for a while." And he knows, I've got the free time and the entitlement attitude and am sufficiently pissed off to go after him. And he knows the city council and the mayor's office won't just ignore me, that IAD will have to look into it. At the end of the day I won't be able to touch him -- the union and the blue line will keep him from serious harm -- but it's going to be a hassle for everyone and it makes him less promotable / supportable in the future. And God only knows what else might get turned up. All in all, a cop needs a _reason_ to frisk me, and if he hasn't got one he's going to pay a price, maybe just a nuisance, but maybe a high one. But he can bust on some black lady because, hey, maybe she's got a gun, and no one cares enough to listen to her complain. And I don't want to hear this crap about a cop's safety. It is a tough, tough job and that's why I respect guys with badges. I would never do anything to make a cop's job harder. But if you are to claim safety as an excuse for violating my rights -- fuck you. That kind of "safety" looks a hell of a lot like the government dominance the Bill of Rights is supposed to prevent. You wanna be safe, be an actuary. Don't put on a uniform and expect me to treat you like a hero while you get nervous because someone _might_ have a gun. I seriously do not understand why this stop and frisk thing is constitutional. If I had to put up with it I'd be pissed off too. Every time they do this they are telling people they are crap, they aren't citizens the way white guys like me are. Their gun hit rate is 0.12%! That isn't police work, that's a gang letting everyone know who's boss.
- look_lookatme 14y ago
  Yup. Probably low grade possession (untold number that qualify as citation offense, but ended up being arrests), possibly warrant type stuff, etc: In 2011, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 685,724 times. 605,328 were totally innocent (88 percent). 350,743 were black (53 percent). 223,740 were Latino (34 percent). 61,805 were white (9 percent). 341,581 were aged 14-24 (51 percent). source: http://www.nyclu.org/issues/racial-justice/stop-and-frisk-practices http://www.nyclu.org/issues/racial-justice/stop-and-frisk-pr...
beedogs 14y ago
The NYPD is absolutely out of control and needs a shakedown from the top down. There is so much corruption and abuse going on that it may not even be fixable.

daenz 14y ago

> it's been reported that the NYPD consistently instructs people in stop-and-frisk situations to remove any drugs from their pocket and present it for inspection prior to frisking, making it publicly displayed. That's really interesting. Are you saying that if an officer finds marijuana, instructs you to remove it, and you refuse, you can't be arrested because you didn't display it publicly?

rhizome 14y ago
No, they say "empty your pockets," and if there is pot there, they charge you not only with possession, but display as well.
- TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
  This is one of those things where I say "isn't that illegal?" And then realise it's the people enforcing the law who are breaking it. Even if it isn't illegal, no chance they'd enforce that.
  - Symmetry 14y ago
    Judges don't always stand for stuff like this, though I assume most of the people caught in this manner are leaned on until they plea bargain. A while ago a family was flying out to visit their home in Africa and carrying a large amount of cash. When asked how much they had they said something like "About $4,000" and the agent they were talking to said that the estimate was fine and instructed them to write that down. When they got further in, though, another agent insisted that the money be counted and when it came out a bit higher than was written down used this as an excuse to seize the money. After a lengthy court battle, though, the family got the money back.
    - jlgreco 14y ago
      I wonder how much money they spent trying to get their money back..
      - Symmetry 14y ago
        I don't know, but apparently I misremembered the amount of money. Here's the ruling from the judge: http://www.volokh.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/35131.pdf http://www.volokh.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/35131.pdf
    - danielweber 14y ago
      You probably know this already, but The Agitator has been doing a bunch of posts about seizing money recently. The vast majority are taken from minorities, and sometimes the cops threaten to take any children you are travelling with away from you if the money isn't forfeited on the spot. I'm probably getting some details wrong so check on him for details.
- look_lookatme 14y ago
  Exactly. On top of that, police are not required to tell you the truth, so they can claim they will only ticket you and so forth in an attempt to you get the drugs out in the open.
  - jrockway 14y ago
    "I don't consent to this search."
    - maratd 14y ago
      The article is about a guy who got the shit beaten out of him for trying to assert his constitutional rights ...
      - Karunamon 14y ago
        I'd accept getting the shit beaten out of me (really!) for the resulting multimillion dollar payout. A few minutes of pain in exchange for being financially secure the rest of my life? Sign me up.
        maratd 14y ago
        I had that same opportunity and I passed on it. It's dirty money. I prefer to earn the money I have. It gives me satisfaction when I use it. With the government, you know that money came from some hardworking individual who paid his taxes ... and the only reason you have it is because some corrupt piece of garbage was drawing a salary on that money and you ended up being his victim. Not how I want to live my life and certainly not something I want to be reminded of every time I take out my wallet.
        jrockway 14y ago
        My point was: if you're carrying illegal drugs and are selected for a random search, don't consent. If you're not carrying illegal drugs, it's really up to you.
Lost_BiomedE 14y ago
From my understanding, it is against the law to disobey a lawful order. I have been told that the way out is to ask explicitly 'Is that an order?', as you can not be charged due to following a lawful order. Maybe someone can confirm this, as at best, I have hearsay. Either way, 'you can beat the rap but not the ride'.

chernevik 14y ago

They stop and frisk 47,000 women. They make 4000 arrests and find 59 guns. I daresay the arrests are mostly low-grade possession with some contempt-of-cop thrown in. At _best_ their hit rate is under 10%. How on God's green earth are these searches "reasonable" under the Constitution? I'm not a big one for "racism" or class analysis but there is no, no way a cop would try this on me, middle-class white guy, walking down the street. If he did I'd give him grief. I'd end up complying, but I'd look him in the eye and say "I've got your badge number. I've got your partner's badge number. Go ahead, take me in. This shit is writing up and you are going to be in paperwork on this for the next six months. I'll call my lawyer, you call your union rep 'cause he'll be working this for a while." And he knows, I've got the free time and the entitlement attitude and am sufficiently pissed off to go after him. And he knows the city council and the mayor's office won't just ignore me, that IAD will have to look into it. At the end of the day I won't be able to touch him -- the union and the blue line will keep him from serious harm -- but it's going to be a hassle for everyone and it makes him less promotable / supportable in the future. And God only knows what else might get turned up. All in all, a cop needs a _reason_ to frisk me, and if he hasn't got one he's going to pay a price, maybe just a nuisance, but maybe a high one. But he can bust on some black lady because, hey, maybe she's got a gun, and no one cares enough to listen to her complain. And I don't want to hear this crap about a cop's safety. It is a tough, tough job and that's why I respect guys with badges. I would never do anything to make a cop's job harder. But if you are to claim safety as an excuse for violating my rights -- fuck you. That kind of "safety" looks a hell of a lot like the government dominance the Bill of Rights is supposed to prevent. You wanna be safe, be an actuary. Don't put on a uniform and expect me to treat you like a hero while you get nervous because someone _might_ have a gun. I seriously do not understand why this stop and frisk thing is constitutional. If I had to put up with it I'd be pissed off too. Every time they do this they are telling people they are crap, they aren't citizens the way white guys like me are. Their gun hit rate is 0.12%! That isn't police work, that's a gang letting everyone know who's boss.

look_lookatme 14y ago
Yup. Probably low grade possession (untold number that qualify as citation offense, but ended up being arrests), possibly warrant type stuff, etc: In 2011, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 685,724 times. 605,328 were totally innocent (88 percent). 350,743 were black (53 percent). 223,740 were Latino (34 percent). 61,805 were white (9 percent). 341,581 were aged 14-24 (51 percent). source: http://www.nyclu.org/issues/racial-justice/stop-and-frisk-practices http://www.nyclu.org/issues/racial-justice/stop-and-frisk-pr...

beedogs 14y ago

The NYPD is absolutely out of control and needs a shakedown from the top down. There is so much corruption and abuse going on that it may not even be fixable.