5 ms·

Things Are Bad at Tesla. They're About to Get Much Worse

32 points by n1b0m 2y ago

n1b0m 2y ago
Summary: https://youtu.be/_SKaBwmHq9Y?si=tUMKzL9X_VNc6Pj_ https://youtu.be/_SKaBwmHq9Y?si=tUMKzL9X_VNc6Pj_
ninjin-carh 2y ago
https://archive.md/HTFE4 https://archive.md/HTFE4
joejohnson 2y ago
BYD makes nicer cars at a cheaper price. The only advantage Tesla has is protectionism in the US market.
- readthenotes1 2y ago
  -- “China had a plan when they let Tesla have a fully owned factory. They wanted the technology and the knowledge and experience. With that came a risk China would take that technology and build better stuff,” said shareholder Ross Gerber, CEO of Gerber Kawasaki Wealth and Investment Management. “That’s exactly what they’re doing. Now they’ve got really competitive vehicles, really competitive technology and the vehicles are cheaper.” -- And BYD had a leg up...
  - jordanb 2y ago
    This has been going on for decades. Any adult in Tesla management should have known that the chances of this happening were 100%.
    - croes 2y ago
      This is how it works. Germany did they same at the beginning of the last century, Japan also to the end.
  - lloyds_barclays 2y ago
    This is what Beijing government did on high speed railway system. Global railway manufactures were asked to hand over their technology, then they can begin to build, ship, and run their rolling stocks on Chinese railway. Beijing did this in early 2000s, and now they dominated the high speed railway standards in many countries.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - joejohnson 2y ago
    This is nonsense to smear Chinese companies and perpetuate this idea that they aren’t innovative and only steal. Anyway, didn’t Tesla give away these patents? https://medium.com/@mk_26304/the-genius-behind-teslas-patent-giveaway-how-elon-musk-played-the-game-to-win-big-09f75a10c9bc https://medium.com/@mk_26304/the-genius-behind-teslas-patent...
- A_D_E_P_T 2y ago
  The US, for all its "free market" pretensions, doesn't really do capitalism very well. What people are now seeing in China, with the rise of more than a half-dozen EV companies in competition with each other, would be impossible in the US. We've got nascent protectionism, total non-enforcement of anti-trust laws (and a very slow and very cowed judiciary,) a complex+selective regulatory environment, and industrial policies that shift with the weather. American manufacturing firms like Tesla and US Steel no longer know how to compete on the merits. And big tech, like big pharma, is a game where small firms are inevitably bought before they can possibly threaten the entrenched major players.
benguild 2y ago
Are TikTok users being steered to anti-Elon content as retaliation for DOGE or something?
- stephen_g 2y ago
  I’m seeing a huge upswell in organic hate for Musk over the last little while across a bunch of forums online, as well as people making jokes about him in real life (this is in Australia), and the dropping Tesla sales seem to be confirming the trend. So the simplest explanation is not anyone ‘steering’ anything, but just that he’s absolutely trashed his own reputation outside what is a fairly narrow political persuasion internationally… (The kind of pro-Trump style conservatism is fairly large in the US but a much smaller minority in much of the rest of the world, and of course the overlap of that and people who would buy EVs is even smaller)
  - ozmodiar 2y ago
    This even under sells it a bit. Trump style conservatism has turned toxic and Musk is heavily associated with its worst aspects (think the "salute"). I think a lot of Americans just don't get how angry the constant threats of tarrifs and attacks is making people. For a mental exercise they should try imagining how mad people were about egg prices, then imagine how much angrier they'd be if on top of that their largest partner started talking about wanting to explicitly ruin their economy if not outright invade them. It's insanity.
- meltyness 2y ago
  I definitely have heard a frazzled shift in tone from the fine folks at donation-centered talk-oriented journalism folks which I have listened to obsessively for years. I think it's OK, if there's a lion hollering you might need some gravity and momentum to hear it and they are certainly trying to find the new polarity.
- AndrewDucker 2y ago
  He's making his own perfectly well.
jqpabc123 2y ago
To be such a smart guy, Musk does some really dumb stuff --- like alienating most of his customer base. Like investing billions to build an auto manufacturing academy for the Chinese --- now his primary competition. The article highlights Tesla marketplace trouble --- but it ignores the other half of a "double whammy" that envelopes Tesla. While Musk was busy shooting his company in the foot, investors were buying his stock like crazy. And not just the "dumb money" retail investors but also the "professional" institutional investors who do this for a living. They now hold 70% of TSLA stock. The P/E of TSLA is around 130. The P/E of GM, Ford and Toyota are all less than 10. In other words, TSLA is outrageously overpriced --- by a factor of at least 10. If TSLA was valued like other car companies (90% of TSLA revenue is from auto sales), would Musk look like a business genius? I don't think so. Tesla's stock price and Musk's business persona are dangling by a thread being held up by these "professional investors". In my opinion, out of fear for their upcoming performance bonuses. Once this thread is cut, Musk will own one of the worst self inflicted financial disasters in the history of business.
- Agingcoder 2y ago
  I understand his shares are collateral for his various other ventures ( and most likely personal expenses ) - a Tesla stock crash might have other consequences
  - dkjaudyeqooe 2y ago
    That's why he had to "sell" X, he was facing margin calls on this Tesla stock and would have been forced to sell stock.
- itsdrewmiller 2y ago
  >If TSLA was valued like other car companies (90% of TSLA revenue is from auto sales), would Musk look like a business genius? Yes? In that world he built tesla into only a 60 billion dollar company, along with his work at X/paypal and SpaceX. That's still incredible. (Obviously that skill hasn't transferred to government work though.)
morkalork 2y ago
You either die trying or live long enough to become the legacy car company
BMc2020 2y ago
A lack of compelling new products is also a problem. Tesla’s most recent addition, Musk’s hard-edged Cybertruck that’s become a favorite target of anti-Elon vandals, has been a flop, selling about 40,000 units last year–a fifth of the annual volume Musk predicted. The vehicle has a shockingly bad record for quality, with eight recalls...
politelemon 2y ago
Is there a chance BYD would be willing to share its 5 minutes battery technology with other makers? I feel that could bolster the EV market, especially where people don't have charging capabilities at home.
perrohunter 2y ago
sight another mainstream article pointing how Tesla will fail, they've been against him since 2017 even before he was somebody, now his track record is undeniable and still they are painting this cynical picture. I'm tired of mainstream media.
- satisfice 2y ago
  I’m tired of mainstream fanboys who ignore his track record of foolish behavior, and assume he is a magical being.
n1b0m 2y ago
[flagged]
rich_sasha 2y ago
> “China had a plan when they let Tesla have a fully owned factory. They wanted the technology and the knowledge and experience. With that came a risk China would take that technology and build better stuff,” said shareholder Ross Gerber, CEO of Gerber Kawasaki Wealth and Investment Management. “That’s exactly what they’re doing. Now they’ve got really competitive vehicles, really competitive technology and the vehicles are cheaper.” They seem to allege that BYD somehow mushroomed on the Tesla secret sauce. But really? It seems to surpass it on all angles. I'm sure they wouldn't be beyond IP grabbing, but let's give credit where it is due. BYD cars just seem better than Teslas, regardless of subsidies, labour costs and price comparisons.
morninglight 2y ago
[flagged]
1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago
https://fortune.com/2025/03/27/anti-musk-bmbper-stickers-tesla-protests-sales/ https://fortune.com/2025/03/27/anti-musk-bmbper-stickers-tes... Maybe Tesla short sellers will make a fortune.

32 points by n1b0m 2y ago

n1b0m 2y ago

Summary: https://youtu.be/_SKaBwmHq9Y?si=tUMKzL9X_VNc6Pj_ https://youtu.be/_SKaBwmHq9Y?si=tUMKzL9X_VNc6Pj_

ninjin-carh 2y ago

https://archive.md/HTFE4 https://archive.md/HTFE4

joejohnson 2y ago

BYD makes nicer cars at a cheaper price. The only advantage Tesla has is protectionism in the US market.

readthenotes1 2y ago
-- “China had a plan when they let Tesla have a fully owned factory. They wanted the technology and the knowledge and experience. With that came a risk China would take that technology and build better stuff,” said shareholder Ross Gerber, CEO of Gerber Kawasaki Wealth and Investment Management. “That’s exactly what they’re doing. Now they’ve got really competitive vehicles, really competitive technology and the vehicles are cheaper.” -- And BYD had a leg up...
- jordanb 2y ago
  This has been going on for decades. Any adult in Tesla management should have known that the chances of this happening were 100%.
  - croes 2y ago
    This is how it works. Germany did they same at the beginning of the last century, Japan also to the end.
- lloyds_barclays 2y ago
  This is what Beijing government did on high speed railway system. Global railway manufactures were asked to hand over their technology, then they can begin to build, ship, and run their rolling stocks on Chinese railway. Beijing did this in early 2000s, and now they dominated the high speed railway standards in many countries.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- joejohnson 2y ago
  This is nonsense to smear Chinese companies and perpetuate this idea that they aren’t innovative and only steal. Anyway, didn’t Tesla give away these patents? https://medium.com/@mk_26304/the-genius-behind-teslas-patent-giveaway-how-elon-musk-played-the-game-to-win-big-09f75a10c9bc https://medium.com/@mk_26304/the-genius-behind-teslas-patent...
A_D_E_P_T 2y ago
The US, for all its "free market" pretensions, doesn't really do capitalism very well. What people are now seeing in China, with the rise of more than a half-dozen EV companies in competition with each other, would be impossible in the US. We've got nascent protectionism, total non-enforcement of anti-trust laws (and a very slow and very cowed judiciary,) a complex+selective regulatory environment, and industrial policies that shift with the weather. American manufacturing firms like Tesla and US Steel no longer know how to compete on the merits. And big tech, like big pharma, is a game where small firms are inevitably bought before they can possibly threaten the entrenched major players.

benguild 2y ago

Are TikTok users being steered to anti-Elon content as retaliation for DOGE or something?

stephen_g 2y ago
I’m seeing a huge upswell in organic hate for Musk over the last little while across a bunch of forums online, as well as people making jokes about him in real life (this is in Australia), and the dropping Tesla sales seem to be confirming the trend. So the simplest explanation is not anyone ‘steering’ anything, but just that he’s absolutely trashed his own reputation outside what is a fairly narrow political persuasion internationally… (The kind of pro-Trump style conservatism is fairly large in the US but a much smaller minority in much of the rest of the world, and of course the overlap of that and people who would buy EVs is even smaller)
- ozmodiar 2y ago
  This even under sells it a bit. Trump style conservatism has turned toxic and Musk is heavily associated with its worst aspects (think the "salute"). I think a lot of Americans just don't get how angry the constant threats of tarrifs and attacks is making people. For a mental exercise they should try imagining how mad people were about egg prices, then imagine how much angrier they'd be if on top of that their largest partner started talking about wanting to explicitly ruin their economy if not outright invade them. It's insanity.
meltyness 2y ago
I definitely have heard a frazzled shift in tone from the fine folks at donation-centered talk-oriented journalism folks which I have listened to obsessively for years. I think it's OK, if there's a lion hollering you might need some gravity and momentum to hear it and they are certainly trying to find the new polarity.
AndrewDucker 2y ago
He's making his own perfectly well.

jqpabc123 2y ago

To be such a smart guy, Musk does some really dumb stuff --- like alienating most of his customer base. Like investing billions to build an auto manufacturing academy for the Chinese --- now his primary competition. The article highlights Tesla marketplace trouble --- but it ignores the other half of a "double whammy" that envelopes Tesla. While Musk was busy shooting his company in the foot, investors were buying his stock like crazy. And not just the "dumb money" retail investors but also the "professional" institutional investors who do this for a living. They now hold 70% of TSLA stock. The P/E of TSLA is around 130. The P/E of GM, Ford and Toyota are all less than 10. In other words, TSLA is outrageously overpriced --- by a factor of at least 10. If TSLA was valued like other car companies (90% of TSLA revenue is from auto sales), would Musk look like a business genius? I don't think so. Tesla's stock price and Musk's business persona are dangling by a thread being held up by these "professional investors". In my opinion, out of fear for their upcoming performance bonuses. Once this thread is cut, Musk will own one of the worst self inflicted financial disasters in the history of business.

Agingcoder 2y ago
I understand his shares are collateral for his various other ventures ( and most likely personal expenses ) - a Tesla stock crash might have other consequences
- dkjaudyeqooe 2y ago
  That's why he had to "sell" X, he was facing margin calls on this Tesla stock and would have been forced to sell stock.
itsdrewmiller 2y ago
>If TSLA was valued like other car companies (90% of TSLA revenue is from auto sales), would Musk look like a business genius? Yes? In that world he built tesla into only a 60 billion dollar company, along with his work at X/paypal and SpaceX. That's still incredible. (Obviously that skill hasn't transferred to government work though.)

morkalork 2y ago

You either die trying or live long enough to become the legacy car company

BMc2020 2y ago

A lack of compelling new products is also a problem. Tesla’s most recent addition, Musk’s hard-edged Cybertruck that’s become a favorite target of anti-Elon vandals, has been a flop, selling about 40,000 units last year–a fifth of the annual volume Musk predicted. The vehicle has a shockingly bad record for quality, with eight recalls...

politelemon 2y ago

Is there a chance BYD would be willing to share its 5 minutes battery technology with other makers? I feel that could bolster the EV market, especially where people don't have charging capabilities at home.

perrohunter 2y ago

sight another mainstream article pointing how Tesla will fail, they've been against him since 2017 even before he was somebody, now his track record is undeniable and still they are painting this cynical picture. I'm tired of mainstream media.

satisfice 2y ago
I’m tired of mainstream fanboys who ignore his track record of foolish behavior, and assume he is a magical being.

n1b0m 2y ago

[flagged]

rich_sasha 2y ago

> “China had a plan when they let Tesla have a fully owned factory. They wanted the technology and the knowledge and experience. With that came a risk China would take that technology and build better stuff,” said shareholder Ross Gerber, CEO of Gerber Kawasaki Wealth and Investment Management. “That’s exactly what they’re doing. Now they’ve got really competitive vehicles, really competitive technology and the vehicles are cheaper.” They seem to allege that BYD somehow mushroomed on the Tesla secret sauce. But really? It seems to surpass it on all angles. I'm sure they wouldn't be beyond IP grabbing, but let's give credit where it is due. BYD cars just seem better than Teslas, regardless of subsidies, labour costs and price comparisons.

morninglight 2y ago

[flagged]

1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago

https://fortune.com/2025/03/27/anti-musk-bmbper-stickers-tesla-protests-sales/ https://fortune.com/2025/03/27/anti-musk-bmbper-stickers-tes... Maybe Tesla short sellers will make a fortune.