5 ms·

So then, you'd also be against adding folate/folic acid to bread for the same reason? For those who don't know many countries including the US mandate the incl

So then, you'd also be against adding folate/folic acid to bread for the same reason? For those who don't know many countries including the US mandate the inclusion of folic acid in bread and certain other foods to ensure pregnant women get enough. A deficiency of folic acid during pregnancy causes birth defects in infants. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folate https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folate

aziaziazi 2y ago
I never heard of that supplement (not a father) and was very surprised to find 80 countries mandate it. I checked the list (below) and it turns out the 80 countries are a bunch of poor nations plus USA, UAE, Qatar, Canada and Australia. I guess our medicare system supports the EU mothers fine enough so we don’t need to put that in the staple of food. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5809909/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5809909/ (Table 1)
- hilbert42 2y ago
  It would be interesting to know why EU countries chose not to mandate it. Also, I wonder if EU flour millers/producers add it voluntarily, and whether flour produced in Canada destined for EU markets leaves out the folate that's mandated for inclusion in the Canadian market.
- WrongAssumption 2y ago
  Or you have just been sweeping preventable birth defects under the rug. The UK determined that had been happening and are going to start doing it. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c206d60xe7no https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c206d60xe7no
- mandevil 2y ago
  https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8264257/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8264257/ 2023 Study: "Despite Public Health Initiatives across Europe recommending that women take 0.4 mg folic acid before becoming pregnant and during the first trimester, the prevalence of NTD pregnancies has not materially decreased in the EU since 1998, in contrast to the dramatic fall observed in the USA. This study aimed to estimate the number of NTD pregnancies that would have been prevented if flour had been fortified with folic acid in Europe from 1998 as it had been in the USA." "Conclusions: This study suggests that failure to implement mandatory folic acid fortification in the 28 European countries has caused, and continues to cause, neural tube defects to occur in almost 1,000 pregnancies every year." The most famous NTD is Spina Bifida, and most of them aren't really fixable by modern health care. So this is 1000 babies a year who are either born with severe birth defects, or, in what I'm guessing is many cases, terminated when they could have been born healthy with a flour enrichment mandate.
FollowingTheDao 2y ago
I am against adding anything to a whole population to treat a few, folate included. Here is why. Folate is a known stimulant of some cancers. https://aacrjournals.org/cebp/article/17/9/2220/169762/Folic-Acid-Supplementation-and-Cancer-Risk-Point https://aacrjournals.org/cebp/article/17/9/2220/169762/Folic... https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13668-018-0237-y https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13668-018-0237-y https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1463-1318.2009.02089.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1463-1318.... (And you know that the first line cancer treatments, like methotrexate, are anti-folates.) So while we are lowering birth defects, are we increasing cancers at the same time? Has this ever been studied? We are not a homogeneous population. The same is true for fluoride. Some people have a fluoride allergy: https://www.aaaai.org/allergist-resources/ask-the-expert/answers/2024/fluoride https://www.aaaai.org/allergist-resources/ask-the-expert/ans... And while fluoride is known to prevent cavities, it also makes tooth enamel brittle: https://www.nature.com/articles/s43246-024-00709-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/s43246-024-00709-8 https://www.medindia.net/news/healthwatch/fluoride-strengthening-teeth-or-making-them-weak-over-time-218390-1.htm https://www.medindia.net/news/healthwatch/fluoride-strengthe... So I prefer to medicate myself, according to my own needs and my own genetics, thank you.
- hilbert42 2y ago
  Presumably, if you're in the US or any of those countries that mandate folate then you don't eat bread or anything containing flour—or you have to get special flour without it. I'd imagine that must be very difficult for you. BTW, that fluoride reference refers to excessive fluoride in water whether natural or added. I've not entered the fluoride debate here except to ask a question. I'd certainly object if fluoride levels were excessive in my water supply.
  - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
    It is difficult, but not impossible. Many bakeries do not add them to their dough and Whole Foods has some brands without them. Do not get me started on the IMP and GMP they are adding to foods now...excitatory purine flavor enhancers in the form of things like "Malted Barely Flour" https://www.eurofins.com/media-centre/newsletters/food-newsletter-nr44-march-2014/flavour-enhancers-in-food-products/ https://www.eurofins.com/media-centre/newsletters/food-newsl... https://www.cspinet.org/article/guanosine-monophosphate-gmp-disodium-guanylate https://www.cspinet.org/article/guanosine-monophosphate-gmp-... https://www.cspinet.org/article/inosine-monophosphate-imp-disodium-inosinate https://www.cspinet.org/article/inosine-monophosphate-imp-di...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

aziaziazi 2y ago

I never heard of that supplement (not a father) and was very surprised to find 80 countries mandate it. I checked the list (below) and it turns out the 80 countries are a bunch of poor nations plus USA, UAE, Qatar, Canada and Australia. I guess our medicare system supports the EU mothers fine enough so we don’t need to put that in the staple of food. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5809909/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5809909/ (Table 1)

hilbert42 2y ago
It would be interesting to know why EU countries chose not to mandate it. Also, I wonder if EU flour millers/producers add it voluntarily, and whether flour produced in Canada destined for EU markets leaves out the folate that's mandated for inclusion in the Canadian market.
WrongAssumption 2y ago
Or you have just been sweeping preventable birth defects under the rug. The UK determined that had been happening and are going to start doing it. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c206d60xe7no https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c206d60xe7no
mandevil 2y ago
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8264257/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8264257/ 2023 Study: "Despite Public Health Initiatives across Europe recommending that women take 0.4 mg folic acid before becoming pregnant and during the first trimester, the prevalence of NTD pregnancies has not materially decreased in the EU since 1998, in contrast to the dramatic fall observed in the USA. This study aimed to estimate the number of NTD pregnancies that would have been prevented if flour had been fortified with folic acid in Europe from 1998 as it had been in the USA." "Conclusions: This study suggests that failure to implement mandatory folic acid fortification in the 28 European countries has caused, and continues to cause, neural tube defects to occur in almost 1,000 pregnancies every year." The most famous NTD is Spina Bifida, and most of them aren't really fixable by modern health care. So this is 1000 babies a year who are either born with severe birth defects, or, in what I'm guessing is many cases, terminated when they could have been born healthy with a flour enrichment mandate.

FollowingTheDao 2y ago

I am against adding anything to a whole population to treat a few, folate included. Here is why. Folate is a known stimulant of some cancers. https://aacrjournals.org/cebp/article/17/9/2220/169762/Folic-Acid-Supplementation-and-Cancer-Risk-Point https://aacrjournals.org/cebp/article/17/9/2220/169762/Folic... https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13668-018-0237-y https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13668-018-0237-y https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1463-1318.2009.02089.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1463-1318.... (And you know that the first line cancer treatments, like methotrexate, are anti-folates.) So while we are lowering birth defects, are we increasing cancers at the same time? Has this ever been studied? We are not a homogeneous population. The same is true for fluoride. Some people have a fluoride allergy: https://www.aaaai.org/allergist-resources/ask-the-expert/answers/2024/fluoride https://www.aaaai.org/allergist-resources/ask-the-expert/ans... And while fluoride is known to prevent cavities, it also makes tooth enamel brittle: https://www.nature.com/articles/s43246-024-00709-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/s43246-024-00709-8 https://www.medindia.net/news/healthwatch/fluoride-strengthening-teeth-or-making-them-weak-over-time-218390-1.htm https://www.medindia.net/news/healthwatch/fluoride-strengthe... So I prefer to medicate myself, according to my own needs and my own genetics, thank you.

hilbert42 2y ago
Presumably, if you're in the US or any of those countries that mandate folate then you don't eat bread or anything containing flour—or you have to get special flour without it. I'd imagine that must be very difficult for you. BTW, that fluoride reference refers to excessive fluoride in water whether natural or added. I've not entered the fluoride debate here except to ask a question. I'd certainly object if fluoride levels were excessive in my water supply.
- FollowingTheDao 2y ago
  It is difficult, but not impossible. Many bakeries do not add them to their dough and Whole Foods has some brands without them. Do not get me started on the IMP and GMP they are adding to foods now...excitatory purine flavor enhancers in the form of things like "Malted Barely Flour" https://www.eurofins.com/media-centre/newsletters/food-newsletter-nr44-march-2014/flavour-enhancers-in-food-products/ https://www.eurofins.com/media-centre/newsletters/food-newsl... https://www.cspinet.org/article/guanosine-monophosphate-gmp-disodium-guanylate https://www.cspinet.org/article/guanosine-monophosphate-gmp-... https://www.cspinet.org/article/inosine-monophosphate-imp-disodium-inosinate https://www.cspinet.org/article/inosine-monophosphate-imp-di...

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]