3 ms·

Is national pride a problem now? I'd expect any country to have something like a national anthem and patriotic songs.

theendisney 2y ago
Yes, in the Netherlands we have a culture of moaning about everthing. Youd beter not dare suggest sonething is good enough! This complaining is the only thing we are proud of. lol (If we had patriotic songs worth remembering im sure i would have) The problem is this, hoe do you fix something you are proud of? It seems a contradiction?
- _heimdall 2y ago
  Agreed, I lives in the Netherlands for a couple years and can agree there isn't much patriotism so much as pragmatism! (I actually mean that as a good thing, I was a very fond of NL and the friends I made there). Speaking as an American, though, I can both be proud of something and recognize its faults. I'm proud of the core principles that America was based upon, for example, but very much recognize how far we've deviated from them and how much we need to fix.
  - vasco 2y ago
    > I'm proud of the core principles that America was based upon I think there's never much to gain in being proud of things you have nothing to do with or control over. If you like some principles you would be proud when you uphold them personally. It is when we start feeling proud in the abstract that we start having issues.
    - kelnos 2y ago
      Can't help but agree. I would go even further and say that pride itself is problematic. Sure, it can perhaps have some good effects, but pride usually blinds people to faults, even if the do acknowledge there are faults. "Pride goeth before a fall" is a time-worn saying for good reason.
input_sh 2y ago
Sure, but kids don't sing them in schools and there's definitely nothing even remotely comparable to the Pledge of Allegiance. Hell, in some countries even the national anthem has no lyrics but is purely an instrumental track (Spain being a notable example).
- cj 2y ago
  > there's definitely nothing even remotely comparable Mexico's Pledge of Allegiance celebrated every Monday in schools. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance_to_the_Mexican_Flag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance_to_the_Me...
  - input_sh 2y ago
    My parents had to do something similar, so I'm not too unfamiliar with the concept: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_Pioneers_of_Yugoslavia#Induction_and_pledge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_Pioneers_of_Yugoslavi... But even that was once-in-a-lifetime event to emphasise the importance of the first day at school at age 7, it did not happen every Monday. Needless to say, it wasn't very effective. As evidenced by history, some of our parents definitely broke that pledge later in their life.
- cscurmudgeon 2y ago
  [dead]
cycomanic 2y ago
I'm not a big fan of patriotism in general, but something I noticed about the US patriotism is the tendency to call the US "the best country in the world". This crosses all political differences, e.g. I recall being surprised how Michael Moore was saying it in an interview or movie (when justifying criticising policy, he said he does it because he knows that America is the best country in the world). Even the most patriotic friends I have in other countries would typically not say this.
- kelnos 2y ago
  Yeah, as an American I've always found this cringe-worthy, even kinda icky. Claiming to be the best (at anything) is just tacky and arrogant. Especially with something as impossible to quantify as "best country". There's no such thing as the best country in the world. Every one has strengths and weaknesses, and you can't really balance and rank them.
- bdangubic 2y ago
  The only thing America is best in the world is number of incarcerated people per capita :)
  - euroclear 2y ago
    Is there a source for this claim? It appears to be untrue. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera... [2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/262962/countries-with-the-most-prisoners-per-100-000-inhabitants/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/262962/countries-with-th...
    - bdangubic 2y ago
      I was 1/2 joking ( https://youtu.be/wTjMqda19wk https://youtu.be/wTjMqda19wk )
- foobiekr 2y ago
  Nationalism is by far the most successful leftist project. It’s kind of amazing that the left has forgotten that fact.

Yes, in the Netherlands we have a culture of moaning about everthing. Youd beter not dare suggest sonething is good enough! This complaining is the only thing we are proud of. lol (If we had patriotic songs worth remembering im sure i would have) The problem is this, hoe do you fix something you are proud of? It seems a contradiction?

_heimdall 2y ago
Agreed, I lives in the Netherlands for a couple years and can agree there isn't much patriotism so much as pragmatism! (I actually mean that as a good thing, I was a very fond of NL and the friends I made there). Speaking as an American, though, I can both be proud of something and recognize its faults. I'm proud of the core principles that America was based upon, for example, but very much recognize how far we've deviated from them and how much we need to fix.
- vasco 2y ago
  > I'm proud of the core principles that America was based upon I think there's never much to gain in being proud of things you have nothing to do with or control over. If you like some principles you would be proud when you uphold them personally. It is when we start feeling proud in the abstract that we start having issues.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    Can't help but agree. I would go even further and say that pride itself is problematic. Sure, it can perhaps have some good effects, but pride usually blinds people to faults, even if the do acknowledge there are faults. "Pride goeth before a fall" is a time-worn saying for good reason.

input_sh 2y ago

Sure, but kids don't sing them in schools and there's definitely nothing even remotely comparable to the Pledge of Allegiance. Hell, in some countries even the national anthem has no lyrics but is purely an instrumental track (Spain being a notable example).

cj 2y ago
> there's definitely nothing even remotely comparable Mexico's Pledge of Allegiance celebrated every Monday in schools. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance_to_the_Mexican_Flag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance_to_the_Me...
- input_sh 2y ago
  My parents had to do something similar, so I'm not too unfamiliar with the concept: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_Pioneers_of_Yugoslavia#Induction_and_pledge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_Pioneers_of_Yugoslavi... But even that was once-in-a-lifetime event to emphasise the importance of the first day at school at age 7, it did not happen every Monday. Needless to say, it wasn't very effective. As evidenced by history, some of our parents definitely broke that pledge later in their life.
cscurmudgeon 2y ago
[dead]

cycomanic 2y ago

I'm not a big fan of patriotism in general, but something I noticed about the US patriotism is the tendency to call the US "the best country in the world". This crosses all political differences, e.g. I recall being surprised how Michael Moore was saying it in an interview or movie (when justifying criticising policy, he said he does it because he knows that America is the best country in the world). Even the most patriotic friends I have in other countries would typically not say this.

kelnos 2y ago
Yeah, as an American I've always found this cringe-worthy, even kinda icky. Claiming to be the best (at anything) is just tacky and arrogant. Especially with something as impossible to quantify as "best country". There's no such thing as the best country in the world. Every one has strengths and weaknesses, and you can't really balance and rank them.
bdangubic 2y ago
The only thing America is best in the world is number of incarcerated people per capita :)
- euroclear 2y ago
  Is there a source for this claim? It appears to be untrue. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera... [2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/262962/countries-with-the-most-prisoners-per-100-000-inhabitants/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/262962/countries-with-th...
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    I was 1/2 joking ( https://youtu.be/wTjMqda19wk https://youtu.be/wTjMqda19wk )
foobiekr 2y ago
Nationalism is by far the most successful leftist project. It’s kind of amazing that the left has forgotten that fact.