3 ms·

I have points to burn, so I'll post, because I know this will scratch some folks the wrong way- apologies in advance. I use Windows. In fact, I like Windows. I

I have points to burn, so I'll post, because I know this will scratch some folks the wrong way- apologies in advance. I use Windows. In fact, I like Windows. I know lots of (ok, more than 5) greybeards who feel exactly the same way. I don't want Linux to be Windows, but I also don't want Linux on my personal desktop either. I have a Mac Mini M1 on my desk, and I use that for the things it's good for, mainly videoconferencing. It's also my secondary Adobe Creative Suite machine. On my Win11 desktop, I have WSL2 with Ubuntu 24.04 for the things it is good for- currently that's Python, SageMath, CUDA, and ffmpeg. For my Unix fix, I use Git Bash (MSYS2) for my "common, everyday Unix-isms" on Windows. I also use PowerShell and Windows Scripting on my box when I need to. Why? Well, firstly, it's easy and I've got stuff to do. Secondly, cost is not really an issue- I bought my Windows Pro license back with Win7, and it was about $180. That was maybe 15 years ago. They have graciously upgraded me at every step- Win7 -> Win10 -> Win11, all at no cost. Even if I had had to buy it, my Taco Bell tab is higher in any given month than a Windows license (love that inflation). Why else? Everything works. I get no annoying popups, and I really no longer sweat garbage living on my drive, because that ship has sailed; wanna waste 50GB? Sure, go ahead. But the most important reason? My hardware is supported. My monitors look great; printers, scanners, mice and USB drives & keys all work. In fact, >90% of the time, everything just works. Further, I can share effortlessly with my Mac, all my Linux servers speak SMB (CIFS), Wireshark works, and my programs are all supported including most open source software. And I do run apps that are 20+ years old from time to time. Truth be told, I have tried the dance of daily driving Linux, and it's a laundry list of explanations to others why my stuff is different or deficient in some way. The kicker is that my clients don't care about purity or coolness factors. Linux has its place. But please don't put in on my main machine, and please don't give it to my family members. They're only being nice by living with a sub-par desktop experience. It will always take a herculean effort to stay on par with Windows or MacOS, and no one really wants to put their money where their mouth is. Please don't misunderstand. I admire and respect authors of open source software, and my servers thank them. But being a contrarian and dogfooding what KDE and GNOME put out, fighting with Nvidia and AMD, dealing with constant driver interface changes, and not having proper commercial software support is not my idea of fun. It was 30 years ago. Today? I'd rather hang with my daughter or write some code. These distros have had 35 years. I don't know what else to say.

LASR 2y ago
TLDR: I’ve got stuff to do. I feel exactly the same way. I recently bought my father-in-law an M4 iMac which he thought was a disproportionately nice gift for no apparent reason. Oh there are some very compelling reasons for it. My tech support load went way down and he’s super happy. Win-win.
d3Xt3r 2y ago
> sub-par desktop experience. I strongly disagree. Linux (KDE) is a far superior desktop experience these days, compared to Windows 11. Have you even seen the new Win11 taskbar and the shitty Start Menu - they ruined something which they perfected in Win7. The overall UX has taken a deep dive - like with the unwanted removal of classic Control Panel applets like "Window Color and Appearance" (which doesn't have a replacement), and the continued bolting-on of unwanted crap like Copilot and forced MS Accounts - like, even the CLOCK app requires you to sign-in (why?) [1]. There are even ads in MS PAINT [2]! Tell me if this is acceptable? > It will always take a herculean effort to stay on par with Windows or MacOS, and no one really wants to put their money where their mouth is. I also disagree with this, in fact, Linux has surpassed Windows and macOS in many areas. Take updates for instance: especially on distros with atomic updates, they are far more reliable and a pleasant experience compared to Windows. Atomic transactions means updates either apply or don't - there's no partial/failed state, so no chance of an update failing and potentially borking your PC. Plus, distros which offer atomic updates also offer easy rollbacks - right from the boot menu - in case of any regressions. Updates also do not interrupt you, nor force you to reboot unexpectedly - you reboot whenever YOU want to, without any annoying nag messages. Most importantly, updates do not hold your PC hostage like Windows does - seeing that "please wait, do not turn off your computer" has got to be the #1 most annoying thing about Windows. It's amazing that even with 40 years of development + trillions of dollars at their disposal, Microsoft still can't figure out how to do updates properly. Finally, your PC will continue to receive updates/upgrades for its entire practical lifespan, unlike Windows (regular versions) which turns a perfectly capable PC into e-waste. Win11 blocking Kaby Lake and older CPUs is a perfect example of planned obsolescence and honestly, it's disgusting that people like you find this acceptable. There are several other areas where Linux shines, like immutable distros, Flatpak apps, sched_ext schedulers, x86_64 microarchitecture optimisations, low resource usage... I could write an entire essay about this, but that will make this lengthy post even lengthier. > But being a contrarian and dogfooding what KDE and GNOME put out Please don't put KDE in the same sentence as GNOME. The GNOME foundation have lost the plot and have betrayed their fans, ever since they released the abomination that is GNOME 3. KDE on the other hand, still delivers what users want (ignoring the KDE 4 era). KDE v6 has been a near-flawless experience, and still has a classic, familiar desktop UX that any old time Windows user would love and feel right at home with, unlike Win11. > fighting with Nvidia and AMD Please don't put nVidia and AMD in the same sentence. nVidia sucks and that's completely nVidia's fault for not supplying a full opensource driver stack (their new open kernel module is an improvement, but many driver components are still proprietary and rely on their GSP). AMD on the other hand, has been a super-pleasant experience over the past few years. Ever since Valve got involved with their Steam Deck efforts, AMD drivers, KDE, Wine and several other related areas have seen massive improvements. I seriously doubt you would have any major complaints with AMD GPUs if you've tried them on a recent distro. > not having proper commercial software support What sort of commercial software does your family require? Mine don't need any (and nor do I). The family members who are still working have their own work-supplied Windows/macOS laptops, so that takes care of the commercial side of things, and outside of work we don't need any commercial software - and we do everything most normal PC users do - surfing the web, basic document/graphics/video editing, printing/scanning, file/photo backups etc. Everything works just fine under Linux, so I'm not sure what we're missing out on by not using commercial software. > These distros have had 35 years. I don't know what else to say. Maybe don't use an ancient distro that's stuck in the past? Try a modern immutable distro like Aurora [3] or Bazzite [4] and see for yourself how much things have changed. [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/ztv70n/since_a_few_days_the_clock_app_opens_a_login/?rdt=56217 https://old.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/ztv70n/since_a_f... [2] https://bsky.app/profile/d3xt3r.bsky.social/post/3lhhltgbtos2q https://bsky.app/profile/d3xt3r.bsky.social/post/3lhhltgbtos... [3] https://getaurora.dev/en https://getaurora.dev/en [4] https://bazzite.gg/ https://bazzite.gg/

LASR 2y ago

TLDR: I’ve got stuff to do. I feel exactly the same way. I recently bought my father-in-law an M4 iMac which he thought was a disproportionately nice gift for no apparent reason. Oh there are some very compelling reasons for it. My tech support load went way down and he’s super happy. Win-win.

d3Xt3r 2y ago

> sub-par desktop experience. I strongly disagree. Linux (KDE) is a far superior desktop experience these days, compared to Windows 11. Have you even seen the new Win11 taskbar and the shitty Start Menu - they ruined something which they perfected in Win7. The overall UX has taken a deep dive - like with the unwanted removal of classic Control Panel applets like "Window Color and Appearance" (which doesn't have a replacement), and the continued bolting-on of unwanted crap like Copilot and forced MS Accounts - like, even the CLOCK app requires you to sign-in (why?) [1]. There are even ads in MS PAINT [2]! Tell me if this is acceptable? > It will always take a herculean effort to stay on par with Windows or MacOS, and no one really wants to put their money where their mouth is. I also disagree with this, in fact, Linux has surpassed Windows and macOS in many areas. Take updates for instance: especially on distros with atomic updates, they are far more reliable and a pleasant experience compared to Windows. Atomic transactions means updates either apply or don't - there's no partial/failed state, so no chance of an update failing and potentially borking your PC. Plus, distros which offer atomic updates also offer easy rollbacks - right from the boot menu - in case of any regressions. Updates also do not interrupt you, nor force you to reboot unexpectedly - you reboot whenever YOU want to, without any annoying nag messages. Most importantly, updates do not hold your PC hostage like Windows does - seeing that "please wait, do not turn off your computer" has got to be the #1 most annoying thing about Windows. It's amazing that even with 40 years of development + trillions of dollars at their disposal, Microsoft still can't figure out how to do updates properly. Finally, your PC will continue to receive updates/upgrades for its entire practical lifespan, unlike Windows (regular versions) which turns a perfectly capable PC into e-waste. Win11 blocking Kaby Lake and older CPUs is a perfect example of planned obsolescence and honestly, it's disgusting that people like you find this acceptable. There are several other areas where Linux shines, like immutable distros, Flatpak apps, sched_ext schedulers, x86_64 microarchitecture optimisations, low resource usage... I could write an entire essay about this, but that will make this lengthy post even lengthier. > But being a contrarian and dogfooding what KDE and GNOME put out Please don't put KDE in the same sentence as GNOME. The GNOME foundation have lost the plot and have betrayed their fans, ever since they released the abomination that is GNOME 3. KDE on the other hand, still delivers what users want (ignoring the KDE 4 era). KDE v6 has been a near-flawless experience, and still has a classic, familiar desktop UX that any old time Windows user would love and feel right at home with, unlike Win11. > fighting with Nvidia and AMD Please don't put nVidia and AMD in the same sentence. nVidia sucks and that's completely nVidia's fault for not supplying a full opensource driver stack (their new open kernel module is an improvement, but many driver components are still proprietary and rely on their GSP). AMD on the other hand, has been a super-pleasant experience over the past few years. Ever since Valve got involved with their Steam Deck efforts, AMD drivers, KDE, Wine and several other related areas have seen massive improvements. I seriously doubt you would have any major complaints with AMD GPUs if you've tried them on a recent distro. > not having proper commercial software support What sort of commercial software does your family require? Mine don't need any (and nor do I). The family members who are still working have their own work-supplied Windows/macOS laptops, so that takes care of the commercial side of things, and outside of work we don't need any commercial software - and we do everything most normal PC users do - surfing the web, basic document/graphics/video editing, printing/scanning, file/photo backups etc. Everything works just fine under Linux, so I'm not sure what we're missing out on by not using commercial software. > These distros have had 35 years. I don't know what else to say. Maybe don't use an ancient distro that's stuck in the past? Try a modern immutable distro like Aurora [3] or Bazzite [4] and see for yourself how much things have changed. [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/ztv70n/since_a_few_days_the_clock_app_opens_a_login/?rdt=56217 https://old.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/ztv70n/since_a_f... [2] https://bsky.app/profile/d3xt3r.bsky.social/post/3lhhltgbtos2q https://bsky.app/profile/d3xt3r.bsky.social/post/3lhhltgbtos... [3] https://getaurora.dev/en https://getaurora.dev/en [4] https://bazzite.gg/ https://bazzite.gg/