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I don’t know how much longer that will be possible with how cheap 5G is getting. Sooner or later they’ll be able to install a $10 part and make a deal with wire

I don’t know how much longer that will be possible with how cheap 5G is getting. Sooner or later they’ll be able to install a $10 part and make a deal with wireless carriers as backhaul for unconnected TVs. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone has already made a deal with Spectrum or XFinity to use those open wifi networks that are open to customers via their account signin. The best solution is commercial displays but those can be quite a bit more expensive and hard to pick out.

thakoppno 2y ago
> I wouldn’t be surprised if someone has already made a deal with Spectrum or XFinity to use those open wifi networks that are open to customers via their account signin. I’m skeptical an arrangement like this could work. The authentication mechanism would be interesting enough to attract security researchers and likely open anonymous Internet access that may undermine any potential benefit gained from viewer data. I could be wrong but I hope not.
- Spooky23 2y ago
  Definitely a risk. I knew a guy who basically got internet access at his apartment in college via his local DOT. The message signs on the boulevard he worked on were just cellular mifi units with open or default credentials. Not super fast, but the price was right.
  - waltbosz 2y ago
    Tangental story about free Internet. I once got a few years of free broadband Internet because I signed up for broadband plus basic cable, but they never put broadband on my bill. They came and did the installation and everything. Then when it eventually shut off, I called them back to complain and they said they had no record of me being a broadband customer, so I was able to sign up for the lower new customer rate. At the same time, my TV had a built in digital tuner that could tune into the on-demand streams of other people in my neighborhood. I could watch as the paused/rewind/etc. The watching trends were interesting. Late nights you'd see soft-core adult movies, Saturday mornings you'd see lots of kid's shows.
  - WarOnPrivacy 2y ago
    > The message signs on the boulevard he worked on were just cellular mifi units with open or default credentials. Not super fast, but the price was right. That's more clever than my reuse story. I repurposed an outdoor AP into a client bridge and pointed at the nearby walmart. I had it feeding an unlocked AP and a yagi pointing into the neighborhood. I ran it for a year without getting my door kicked in.
- cma 2y ago
  There's already Amazon sidewalk and other IoT networks where they can dump data if any neighbor or passerby has a connected device.
NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
> I don’t know how much longer that will be possible with how cheap 5G is getting. Sooner or later they’ll be able to install a $10 part and make a deal with wireless carriers as backhaul for unconnected TVs. I had a really snarky reply to this, about how I'd just crack it open and remove the sim card, warranty be damned. Then I realized that even sim cards are going away, that's all done in software on the latest phones (no doubt an option soon for everything). Sorta fucked, I wish you were wrong.
- barotalomey 2y ago
  It's called eSIM and has been around for a while. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESIM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESIM
- exe34 2y ago
  it has to have some kind of modem/antenna that you can cauterise.
  - jononor 2y ago
    But the TV functionality does not have to work if one does that? We should really have laws that makes it illegal to not function without connectivity.
    - exe34 2y ago
      correct. that's why I have an old and dumb projector instead of a TV.
dreamcompiler 2y ago
This idea doesn't bother me at all. I won't buy any TV for which I cannot disable the 5G antenna with basic tools by following a simple procedure described on some website. If said TV won't work without 5G connectivity, it goes on my "Do Not Buy" list.
- account42 2y ago
  Good for you? What if you won't be able to find any tv that works without cryptographically signed periodic online check-ins. Sure we could all try to ignore the horrors of modern society and move to a cabin in the woods (and then get to know our local mailmen when we find out that even that isn't enough) but perhaps it would be better and take a stand now while we can.
PeterStuer 2y ago
Adding 5G today increases the BOM by 10$-30$ in volume production. Keep in mind that the tv already has ethernet and wifi to ISP controlled networks. Basically almost every consumer ISP offer mandatory includes an ISP managed gateway, that can pre-certify your appliances or operate hidden ssid networks or "public" wifi access point to the ISP's network. So "smart" appliance operators only need deals with a few big ISPs to get this reach, no 5G required. With less than a dozens deals you would cover most of the US and EU.
- distances 2y ago
  > Basically almost every consumer ISP offer mandatory includes an ISP managed gateway Is that really true? I never thought Internet subscriptions would require use of ISP's own device. I for sure have been using my own DSL modem/router/wlan device for my own connections (EU).
  - i_am_jl 2y ago
    East Coast US here, I can bring my own cable modem with any cable ISP I have had in the past 10 years. I imagine fiber is a different story.
  - mystified5016 2y ago
    Well, yes and no. Providers are (I believe) required to let you bring your own equipment. Every DSL or cable service I've seen has allowed this. However, it is also required that the modem you plug into the network accepts and runs firmware provided solely by the network operator. They can update your device at any time and there's nothing you can do about it. So yeah, you can run your own hardware if you want, but the ISP will run their software on it whether you like it or not.
    - distances 2y ago
      Definitely not the case. How would the firmware even end up in the device, which protocol delivers it? And which ISP would have the expertise to patch a collection of random devices in the network?
throwaway48476 2y ago
If they added 5G I'd buy one, just for the free service. Old Amazon kindles came with SIM cards you could put in your phone for free data service.

thakoppno 2y ago

> I wouldn’t be surprised if someone has already made a deal with Spectrum or XFinity to use those open wifi networks that are open to customers via their account signin. I’m skeptical an arrangement like this could work. The authentication mechanism would be interesting enough to attract security researchers and likely open anonymous Internet access that may undermine any potential benefit gained from viewer data. I could be wrong but I hope not.

Spooky23 2y ago
Definitely a risk. I knew a guy who basically got internet access at his apartment in college via his local DOT. The message signs on the boulevard he worked on were just cellular mifi units with open or default credentials. Not super fast, but the price was right.
- waltbosz 2y ago
  Tangental story about free Internet. I once got a few years of free broadband Internet because I signed up for broadband plus basic cable, but they never put broadband on my bill. They came and did the installation and everything. Then when it eventually shut off, I called them back to complain and they said they had no record of me being a broadband customer, so I was able to sign up for the lower new customer rate. At the same time, my TV had a built in digital tuner that could tune into the on-demand streams of other people in my neighborhood. I could watch as the paused/rewind/etc. The watching trends were interesting. Late nights you'd see soft-core adult movies, Saturday mornings you'd see lots of kid's shows.
- WarOnPrivacy 2y ago
  > The message signs on the boulevard he worked on were just cellular mifi units with open or default credentials. Not super fast, but the price was right. That's more clever than my reuse story. I repurposed an outdoor AP into a client bridge and pointed at the nearby walmart. I had it feeding an unlocked AP and a yagi pointing into the neighborhood. I ran it for a year without getting my door kicked in.
cma 2y ago
There's already Amazon sidewalk and other IoT networks where they can dump data if any neighbor or passerby has a connected device.

NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago

> I don’t know how much longer that will be possible with how cheap 5G is getting. Sooner or later they’ll be able to install a $10 part and make a deal with wireless carriers as backhaul for unconnected TVs. I had a really snarky reply to this, about how I'd just crack it open and remove the sim card, warranty be damned. Then I realized that even sim cards are going away, that's all done in software on the latest phones (no doubt an option soon for everything). Sorta fucked, I wish you were wrong.

barotalomey 2y ago
It's called eSIM and has been around for a while. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESIM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESIM
exe34 2y ago
it has to have some kind of modem/antenna that you can cauterise.
- jononor 2y ago
  But the TV functionality does not have to work if one does that? We should really have laws that makes it illegal to not function without connectivity.
  - exe34 2y ago
    correct. that's why I have an old and dumb projector instead of a TV.

dreamcompiler 2y ago

This idea doesn't bother me at all. I won't buy any TV for which I cannot disable the 5G antenna with basic tools by following a simple procedure described on some website. If said TV won't work without 5G connectivity, it goes on my "Do Not Buy" list.

account42 2y ago
Good for you? What if you won't be able to find any tv that works without cryptographically signed periodic online check-ins. Sure we could all try to ignore the horrors of modern society and move to a cabin in the woods (and then get to know our local mailmen when we find out that even that isn't enough) but perhaps it would be better and take a stand now while we can.

PeterStuer 2y ago

Adding 5G today increases the BOM by 10$-30$ in volume production. Keep in mind that the tv already has ethernet and wifi to ISP controlled networks. Basically almost every consumer ISP offer mandatory includes an ISP managed gateway, that can pre-certify your appliances or operate hidden ssid networks or "public" wifi access point to the ISP's network. So "smart" appliance operators only need deals with a few big ISPs to get this reach, no 5G required. With less than a dozens deals you would cover most of the US and EU.

distances 2y ago
> Basically almost every consumer ISP offer mandatory includes an ISP managed gateway Is that really true? I never thought Internet subscriptions would require use of ISP's own device. I for sure have been using my own DSL modem/router/wlan device for my own connections (EU).
- i_am_jl 2y ago
  East Coast US here, I can bring my own cable modem with any cable ISP I have had in the past 10 years. I imagine fiber is a different story.
- mystified5016 2y ago
  Well, yes and no. Providers are (I believe) required to let you bring your own equipment. Every DSL or cable service I've seen has allowed this. However, it is also required that the modem you plug into the network accepts and runs firmware provided solely by the network operator. They can update your device at any time and there's nothing you can do about it. So yeah, you can run your own hardware if you want, but the ISP will run their software on it whether you like it or not.
  - distances 2y ago
    Definitely not the case. How would the firmware even end up in the device, which protocol delivers it? And which ISP would have the expertise to patch a collection of random devices in the network?

throwaway48476 2y ago

If they added 5G I'd buy one, just for the free service. Old Amazon kindles came with SIM cards you could put in your phone for free data service.