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Autonomous cars are the next big tech that changes the world - I put them up there with computer, Internet, and smart phone. When economists think about techno

Autonomous cars are the next big tech that changes the world - I put them up there with computer, Internet, and smart phone. When economists think about technology, they look at it as a productivity booster. From that angle, robot cars will have a huge impact - so many commute hours will be transformed to work, or even leisure, which also boosts productivity. So many smart people are about to be given a 10% or better bump in time to make and to do.

TylerE 14y ago
So will susceptibility to car sickness become a federally-protected disability?
- fghh45sdfhr3 14y ago
  I wonder how much of car sickness is thanks to the driver. And if a good enough software could drive without causing car sickness?
  - TylerE 14y ago
    Well, at least in my case, it only happens as a passenger. I can sit there, and I'm fine, but the instant I try to read something, watch a video, or something like that, I start to feel bad. Actually, even a glance at my GPS while driving wil occasionally cause a twinge.
  - alexsb92 14y ago
    I don't necessarily think that will be the case. As far as I knew (and from re-skimming the wiki article), car sickness (and any kind of motion sickness) is caused by the brain seeing different things than what it's processing from the inner ear. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_sickness http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_sickness So it's more up to the individual in question, then the driver (considering a normal, average car ride, not anything in the extremes).
  - snewman 14y ago
    Car sickness tends to happen when you're focusing on the interior of the car. That's what leads to the disconnect between your visual field and your mechanical sense of motion. I expect this is the main reason that drivers are rarely affected -- they're always looking out the window (more or less), so their visual sense of motion remains aligned with their other senses.
    - jlgreco 14y ago
      In my personal experience, car sickness is caused by high jerk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerk_%28physics%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerk_%28physics%29), primarily during deceleration. (This is also commonly known as "bad driving".) I imagine this is something that self-driving cars won't have a problem with.
      - nitrogen 14y ago
        That doesn't necessarily account for people getting car sick on long, smooth, winding canyon roads driven at constant speed. The jerk induced by following the curves in the road should be lower than that caused by braking.
        jlgreco 14y ago
        Honestly I think it is a combination of where your awareness is focused, and jerk. Long windy roads put varying lateral forces on passengers which probably become an issue if their focus is in the car.
        nitrogen 14y ago
        Sometimes I get "carsick" while working with very small components (such as eyeglass-sized screws) that aren't behaving as they should, so I would have to attribute greater weight to the idea that carsickness is caused by a disagreement between the senses.
      - dclowd9901 14y ago
        Seconded. I can take road trips like crazy, but hop in the Mountain View Caltrain shuttles with their crap drivers on a warm day, and I seriously feel like I could lose my lunch.
  - damoncali 14y ago
    For me, it is a side effect of some problems with my vision. I hear it is curable with vison therapy, but that is quite expensive.
    - TylerE 14y ago
      That's actually really interesting. I've always worn glasses but my vision has gotten progressively worse as I've aged - it's not bad, even now, I can legally drive without glasses - but it's enough to be noticeable. I also was much less prone to motion sickness when I was younger - I would happily read full novels while riding along as a grade schooler.
      - damoncali 14y ago
        My eyes have been awful since I was a kid, but just near-sighted. My daughter needed vision therapy as a young child, and when I went into the therapist's office, I got an exam for my glasses prescription. Turned out that I had similar issues, just not noticeable. It had to do with my eyes not being able to properly maintain a focus at a specific distance over time, and their ability to track properly. I've always been a slow reader - this is at least partly why. I was told that it's also responsible for the fact that I get car sick within seconds of reading in the car, and that it goes away with therapy. Unfortunately, I never did go through with the therapy.
  - Splines 14y ago
    Maybe if you had some sort of AR setup that projected what you were interested in onto the environment. E.g., passengers would be able to read a book as if it was on a billboard floating on the horizon. Would that be enough to combat the effect?
  - apike 14y ago
    In theory, yes. Motion sickness depends on the type of motion. A very bouncy or aggressive ride will result in more sickness, whereas a very smooth ride (such as a train) results in less. It's all about how much confusion there is between what you're seeing and your sense of balance. As it happens, the same types of driving that are more fuel efficient cause less motion sickness. Still, driving anywhere with stop lights and other traffic probably necessitates enough stopping and starting that even maximally efficient driving software would cause motion sickness in many people.
paganel 14y ago
> Autonomous cars are the next big tech that changes the world - I put them up there with computer, Internet, and smart phone. I wouldn't be so sure. Yeah, it might prove to be a very good thing for the United States, but for the rest of world there's first Europe's public transport networks (I'm 31, don't have a driver's license, I live in Europe, I'm doing perfectly fine, thank you), and short of us reaching the Singularity I honestly don't see any of these cars driving in the crazy traffic of Cairo, Istanbul, or any other metropolis from the rest of Asia or Africa.
- adamsmith 14y ago
  Cars will become more appealing than public transportation over time. As the downsides of cars fall away, their packet switched functionality will ultimately win out, particularly for wealthier people.
  - Someone 14y ago
    I would think the reverse. Why own a car if you can get a taxi at your door in the size/shape/color of your choice whenever you need one without having to pay for the taxi driver?
    - UK-AL 14y ago
      A taxi is a car.
      - Someone 14y ago
        You are right, but I am, too :-). In my mind, a taxi also is public transportation. I do not think I am alone in that. Wikipedia disagrees with it in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport ("as distinct from modes such as taxicab"), but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicab http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicab talks of "modes of public transport" for taxicabs. I guess the terminology will become more confused if/when driverless cars become commonplace.
  - 14y ago
adolfojp 14y ago
Eating food from a tube could also give us a lot more free time but we don't do it because it is not an enjoyable experience. We not only enjoy the flavors and textures that regular food provides, we also enjoy the rituals that accompany eating. In this regard driving cars is somewhat similar. A lot of people enjoy driving and many actually find it therapeutic. Some exceptions do exist, like driving in heavy traffic, driving long distances, and driving to places where parking spaces are limited, but better public transportation would solve those problems much more efficiently than autonomous cars ever will. So, while autonomous cars could and probably will replace regular cars in places that have regular roads and good infrastructure they will definitely face a lot of resistance from consumers.
- enraged_camel 14y ago
  >> Eating food from a tube could also give us a lot more free time but we don't do it because it is not an enjoyable experience. We not only enjoy the flavors and textures that regular food provides, we also enjoy the rituals that accompany eating. In this regard driving cars is somewhat similar. Yeah, I felt this way for about two weeks after I learned how to drive. After that, it quickly got tedious and boring.
  - danparsonson 14y ago
    I've been driving for over 10 years and I still enjoy almost every journey - I think autonomous cars are a fantastic idea but I would miss driving if I couldn't ever do it.
    - enraged_camel 14y ago
      I don't think the automation would ever be mandatory. It would be more like auto-pilot, where it would do most of the mundane driving, but let you take over when you want.
      - mchusma 14y ago
        Do you think once the automated car gets to the point where it causes 1000x less fatalities, that people would still allow the freedom to drive a 3 ton missile around public? I personally think not.

TylerE 14y ago

So will susceptibility to car sickness become a federally-protected disability?

fghh45sdfhr3 14y ago
I wonder how much of car sickness is thanks to the driver. And if a good enough software could drive without causing car sickness?
- TylerE 14y ago
  Well, at least in my case, it only happens as a passenger. I can sit there, and I'm fine, but the instant I try to read something, watch a video, or something like that, I start to feel bad. Actually, even a glance at my GPS while driving wil occasionally cause a twinge.
- alexsb92 14y ago
  I don't necessarily think that will be the case. As far as I knew (and from re-skimming the wiki article), car sickness (and any kind of motion sickness) is caused by the brain seeing different things than what it's processing from the inner ear. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_sickness http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_sickness So it's more up to the individual in question, then the driver (considering a normal, average car ride, not anything in the extremes).
- snewman 14y ago
  Car sickness tends to happen when you're focusing on the interior of the car. That's what leads to the disconnect between your visual field and your mechanical sense of motion. I expect this is the main reason that drivers are rarely affected -- they're always looking out the window (more or less), so their visual sense of motion remains aligned with their other senses.
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    In my personal experience, car sickness is caused by high jerk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerk_%28physics%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerk_%28physics%29), primarily during deceleration. (This is also commonly known as "bad driving".) I imagine this is something that self-driving cars won't have a problem with.
    - nitrogen 14y ago
      That doesn't necessarily account for people getting car sick on long, smooth, winding canyon roads driven at constant speed. The jerk induced by following the curves in the road should be lower than that caused by braking.
      - jlgreco 14y ago
        Honestly I think it is a combination of where your awareness is focused, and jerk. Long windy roads put varying lateral forces on passengers which probably become an issue if their focus is in the car.
        nitrogen 14y ago
        Sometimes I get "carsick" while working with very small components (such as eyeglass-sized screws) that aren't behaving as they should, so I would have to attribute greater weight to the idea that carsickness is caused by a disagreement between the senses.
    - dclowd9901 14y ago
      Seconded. I can take road trips like crazy, but hop in the Mountain View Caltrain shuttles with their crap drivers on a warm day, and I seriously feel like I could lose my lunch.
- damoncali 14y ago
  For me, it is a side effect of some problems with my vision. I hear it is curable with vison therapy, but that is quite expensive.
  - TylerE 14y ago
    That's actually really interesting. I've always worn glasses but my vision has gotten progressively worse as I've aged - it's not bad, even now, I can legally drive without glasses - but it's enough to be noticeable. I also was much less prone to motion sickness when I was younger - I would happily read full novels while riding along as a grade schooler.
    - damoncali 14y ago
      My eyes have been awful since I was a kid, but just near-sighted. My daughter needed vision therapy as a young child, and when I went into the therapist's office, I got an exam for my glasses prescription. Turned out that I had similar issues, just not noticeable. It had to do with my eyes not being able to properly maintain a focus at a specific distance over time, and their ability to track properly. I've always been a slow reader - this is at least partly why. I was told that it's also responsible for the fact that I get car sick within seconds of reading in the car, and that it goes away with therapy. Unfortunately, I never did go through with the therapy.
- Splines 14y ago
  Maybe if you had some sort of AR setup that projected what you were interested in onto the environment. E.g., passengers would be able to read a book as if it was on a billboard floating on the horizon. Would that be enough to combat the effect?
- apike 14y ago
  In theory, yes. Motion sickness depends on the type of motion. A very bouncy or aggressive ride will result in more sickness, whereas a very smooth ride (such as a train) results in less. It's all about how much confusion there is between what you're seeing and your sense of balance. As it happens, the same types of driving that are more fuel efficient cause less motion sickness. Still, driving anywhere with stop lights and other traffic probably necessitates enough stopping and starting that even maximally efficient driving software would cause motion sickness in many people.

paganel 14y ago

> Autonomous cars are the next big tech that changes the world - I put them up there with computer, Internet, and smart phone. I wouldn't be so sure. Yeah, it might prove to be a very good thing for the United States, but for the rest of world there's first Europe's public transport networks (I'm 31, don't have a driver's license, I live in Europe, I'm doing perfectly fine, thank you), and short of us reaching the Singularity I honestly don't see any of these cars driving in the crazy traffic of Cairo, Istanbul, or any other metropolis from the rest of Asia or Africa.

adamsmith 14y ago
Cars will become more appealing than public transportation over time. As the downsides of cars fall away, their packet switched functionality will ultimately win out, particularly for wealthier people.
- Someone 14y ago
  I would think the reverse. Why own a car if you can get a taxi at your door in the size/shape/color of your choice whenever you need one without having to pay for the taxi driver?
  - UK-AL 14y ago
    A taxi is a car.
    - Someone 14y ago
      You are right, but I am, too :-). In my mind, a taxi also is public transportation. I do not think I am alone in that. Wikipedia disagrees with it in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport ("as distinct from modes such as taxicab"), but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicab http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicab talks of "modes of public transport" for taxicabs. I guess the terminology will become more confused if/when driverless cars become commonplace.
- 14y ago

adolfojp 14y ago

Eating food from a tube could also give us a lot more free time but we don't do it because it is not an enjoyable experience. We not only enjoy the flavors and textures that regular food provides, we also enjoy the rituals that accompany eating. In this regard driving cars is somewhat similar. A lot of people enjoy driving and many actually find it therapeutic. Some exceptions do exist, like driving in heavy traffic, driving long distances, and driving to places where parking spaces are limited, but better public transportation would solve those problems much more efficiently than autonomous cars ever will. So, while autonomous cars could and probably will replace regular cars in places that have regular roads and good infrastructure they will definitely face a lot of resistance from consumers.

enraged_camel 14y ago
>> Eating food from a tube could also give us a lot more free time but we don't do it because it is not an enjoyable experience. We not only enjoy the flavors and textures that regular food provides, we also enjoy the rituals that accompany eating. In this regard driving cars is somewhat similar. Yeah, I felt this way for about two weeks after I learned how to drive. After that, it quickly got tedious and boring.
- danparsonson 14y ago
  I've been driving for over 10 years and I still enjoy almost every journey - I think autonomous cars are a fantastic idea but I would miss driving if I couldn't ever do it.
  - enraged_camel 14y ago
    I don't think the automation would ever be mandatory. It would be more like auto-pilot, where it would do most of the mundane driving, but let you take over when you want.
    - mchusma 14y ago
      Do you think once the automated car gets to the point where it causes 1000x less fatalities, that people would still allow the freedom to drive a 3 ton missile around public? I personally think not.